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Post by purr on Apr 1, 2021 6:22:24 GMT
I'm continuing from the old Defend The Police thread right here because CNN has begun covering Chauvin's trial, framing it within a racial injustice context which seems to invite the viewer to pronounce judgement on the Cruelty and Evil of American Slavery rather than posing the question of Chauvin and fellow officers' guilt in the matter of George Floyd's death.
Thus put it seems like a simple YES ..so... YES deal (slavery the BIG EVIL and of course Georg Floyd's terrible passing while under Derek Chauvin's kneehold an individual example of same). Like I said in DTP before, I'd like to opt for a different emphasis, asking "What happened?". I re-embedded the ABC video above and will try to add some of the new stuff coming out as the trial proceeds to assist in arriving at the most well informed answer possible. I welcome any of your opinions/insights, especially from an American perspective, as well. To keep current, apart from watching witness testimony and CNN commentary on the telly, I read this dynamically developing Wikipedia page State v. Chauvin and stay open to follow the facts wherever they lead.
To (again) position myself, Defend The Police sets off from a premise that our Police is a vital force for good in our societies, therefore worth defending. And moving beyond well intended generalities: what follows is that we should also defend individual police officers even if suspected of heinous crimes, no... ESPECIALLY if suspected of heinous crimes.
I have no interest in white washing a priory any police action. Actual wrongdoing and action in breach of the law by police should be uncovered and acknowledged. If bad cops get their despicable donkey thrown in jail, no problemo (and good riddance!).
But as the trial goes forward I am starting out intensely curious, asking the question: what really happened during George Floyd's arrest?
purr
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Post by plutronus on Apr 1, 2021 8:16:46 GMT
Hi,
I personally believe that those policemen, are completely innocent, and that all they did was to administer their jobs.
You ever have to wrestle with somebody misbehaving? And while they are inebriated because of drug usage? "Please, do not resist, please sit down." does not work. One must become rough and tough to get the perps to comply. Putting a knee on the side of a neck does not asphyxiate.
Let us not forget that that big black jerk, was breaking the law, passing counterfeit money, high on meth, and was resisting, while lying his ass off, "I'm claustrophobic", as the police were trying to put him in the back-seat of the patrol car, but he drove to the store in a small two-door sedan. Just more BLM racist theme type 'injustice' lies.
We are in the initial phase of a battle folks. The POCs hate the Whites, they want what we have, but they don't want us or our way of doing things...while the Blacks feel that they can't be happy until they own us. Look at their thinking, how retarded can one get? And then there is the POC government racism being levied at Whites. Here in California one of the big cities (mostly Hispanic) just passed a Communist-Democrat poverty payment law, where the poor (Blacks and Browns) who have less than $12,000 income per year, will be paid by the local Communist-Democrat government, an additional $1200 per month (its a blue vote getter law), but the poor Whites are not eligible, --fairly discriminatory racism against, US. Remind anyone of Germany in the 1930s? The Blue Communists are claiming that we Whities are behaving like the Nazis.
But wait....the Blacks are only 14% of the population, so why is the Communist controlled news media focusing on them? The Hispanics are 33%, and are streaming into the country through the unWalled areas of the southern US Border?
Soon, amnesty American-Hispanics and their 12 offspring (Catholics don't embrace birth-control, and the free-meal supports lots of) kids will become the majority population ethnicity, and White America (we are the good part) will never be able to be a free Democratic country again. The Hispanics are coming from socialist countries, they think 'socialist', and they are not coming here for our idealogy, but for the blue US Communist government promise of amnesty and the 'free-meal', in exchange for blue Communist votes. Capece?
Do not be confused by all the smoke and mirrors of the propaganda stations...that is the plan. That is what is happening right now and we, the Whites are being victimized as being racists, to obfuscate the actual plan which is well in motion to overthrow our way of life.
Communication via the InterNet is too dangerous, too many spies watching EVERYTHING we do and write. Land-Line, wired, telephone pole communication is much more private. While InterNet usage with encrypted e-mail, usage of an e-mail matched VPN provider and No-Script is a fairly safe strategy, but not perfect.
My prediction is that a Civil-War is in the works, unfortunately there is likely no way around it, its gotta be done to save the country's ideology and way of life. It is now a matter of when. It'll be in the guise of a race war, but in reality it is Democracy against the Communists. Again, it's the Donkeys vs the Elephants, with a highly organized Communist bias.
China is really nasty....it is my opinion that CoVid was a Chinese Communist biological weapon attack on the US. They didn't care how many people they killed to get Trump out of power.
My Qabalah mentor has called these the 'Dark-Times'.
The shi.t-storm has begun....
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Post by ZETAR on Apr 1, 2021 15:59:28 GMT
I'm continuing from the old Defend The Police thread right here because CNN has begun covering Chauvin's trial, framing it within a racial injustice context which seems to invite the viewer to pronounce judgement on the Cruelty and Evil of American Slavery rather than posing the question of Chauvin and fellow officers' guilt in the matter of George Floyd's death.
Thus put it seems like a simple YES ..so... YES deal (slavery the BIG EVIL and of course Georg Floyd's terrible passing while under Derek Chauvin's kneehold an individual example of same). Like I said in DTP before, I'd like to opt for a different emphasis, asking "What happened?". I re-embedded the ABC video above and will try to add some of the new stuff coming out as the trial proceeds to assist in arriving at the most well informed answer possible. I welcome any of your opinions/insights, especially from an American perspective, as well. To keep current, apart from watching witness testimony and CNN commentary on the telly, I read this dynamically developing Wikipedia page State v. Chauvin and stay open to follow the facts wherever they lead.
To (again) position myself, Defend The Police sets off from a premise that our Police is a vital force for good in our societies, therefore worth defending. And moving beyond well intended generalities: what follows is that we should also defend individual police officers even if suspected of heinous crimes, no... ESPECIALLY if suspected of heinous crimes.
I have no interest in white washing a priory any police action. Actual wrongdoing and action in breach of the law by police should be uncovered and acknowledged. If bad cops get their despicable donkey thrown in jail, no problemo (and good riddance!).
But as the trial goes forward I am starting out intensely curious, asking the question: what really happened during George Floyd's arrest?
purr
 SHALOM...Z |
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Post by purr on Apr 2, 2021 6:20:34 GMT
I'm continuing from the old Defend The Police thread right here because CNN has begun covering Chauvin's trial, framing it within a racial injustice context which seems to invite the viewer to pronounce judgement on the Cruelty and Evil of American Slavery rather than posing the question of Chauvin and fellow officers' guilt in the matter of George Floyd's death.
Thus put it seems like a simple YES ..so... YES deal (slavery the BIG EVIL and of course Georg Floyd's terrible passing while under Derek Chauvin's kneehold an individual example of same). Like I said in DTP before, I'd like to opt for a different emphasis, asking "What happened?". I re-embedded the ABC video above and will try to add some of the new stuff coming out as the trial proceeds to assist in arriving at the most well informed answer possible. I welcome any of your opinions/insights, especially from an American perspective, as well. To keep current, apart from watching witness testimony and CNN commentary on the telly, I read this dynamically developing Wikipedia page State v. Chauvin and stay open to follow the facts wherever they lead.
To (again) position myself, Defend The Police sets off from a premise that our Police is a vital force for good in our societies, therefore worth defending. And moving beyond well intended generalities: what follows is that we should also defend individual police officers even if suspected of heinous crimes, no... ESPECIALLY if suspected of heinous crimes.
I have no interest in white washing a priory any police action. Actual wrongdoing and action in breach of the law by police should be uncovered and acknowledged. If bad cops get their despicable donkey thrown in jail, no problemo (and good riddance!).
But as the trial goes forward I am starting out intensely curious, asking the question: what really happened during George Floyd's arrest?
purr
Thanks ZETAR, any potent drug cocktail found to have been in Floyd's blood during his bizarre interactions with law enforcement officers trying varying tacks towards getting compliance, well actually getting degrees of non-compliance whether instructing show of hands (don't shoot me!), exit vehicle, take a seat in cruiser (refusal due to claustrophobia, 'can't breathe' and being 'choked'). He did for a minute sit down as asked on the sidewalk, chatting pleasantly enough with the officer, but the calming down effect did not last. Agitated was the default. ZETAR, I intend to get into the details of his wording and expressed emotion, worthwhile doing, but on the face of it mr. Floyd was all over the place. During minutes before Derek Chauvin arrived and after George Floyd was non-compliant, resisting, talked about getting shot, said he was scared, talked about his mama, sounded off as being the victim of police violence, and fatefully, when instructed to sit, requested to be put on the ground (I'm going down). Floyd also already was repeating his mantra or plea "I can't breathe". THIS IS THE KIND OF SCENE EXPERIENCED OFFICER CHAUVIN WAS CONFRONTED WITH. How his lawyers introduce this type of information into the trial is a matter of legal strategy, adaptive to American law and the peculiarities of engaging the Jury, something beyond my purview. If I were arriving at that arrest scene I might well get a sense that George Floyd was putting up a grand performance of many parts, victim of racial oppression, of police brutality, switching from reasonable to madman, making up excuses for his troublesome behaviors as he went along AND PLAYING POLICE who were being calm and professional attempting to talk him down (yet to no avail). Contrary to erroneous reporting, never was a gun aimed at George Floyd's head, instead one was briefly lined up with the ground before his feet. At this point Chauvin decided to apply the ground restraint, in an ultimate attempt to calm the suspect down, resulting in the horrific and deeply troubling Youtubes, and during which endless 9:29 minutes Floyd went from imho performing as Black Martyr for cams and sidewalk public to sadly dying for real, hopefully in the end going to his Mama and Jesus who from first Good Friday onward knows all about human suffering and loves all wrongdoers and fools. I better include myself too in such categories.
You may expect me to argue (as I have been doing Ad Nauseum) that Chauvin and his fellow officers' actions and apparent intent are not consistent with the crime of murder in any degree. Police were affecting an arrest and it went horribly wrong...
purr
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Post by purr on Apr 2, 2021 7:13:37 GMT
Hi,
I personally believe that those policemen, are completely innocent, and that all they did was to administer their jobs.
You ever have to wrestle with somebody misbehaving? And while they are inebriated because of drug usage? "Please, do not resist, please sit down." does not work. One must become rough and tough to get the perps to comply. Putting a knee on the side of a neck does not asphyxiate.
Let us not forget that that big black jerk, was breaking the law, passing counterfeit money, high on meth, and was resisting, while lying his ass off, "I'm claustrophobic", as the police were trying to put him in the back-seat of the patrol car, but he drove to the store in a small two-door sedan. Just more BLM racist theme type 'injustice' lies.
We are in the initial phase of a battle folks. The POCs hate the Whites, they want what we have, but they don't want us or our way of doing things...while the Blacks feel that they can't be happy until they own us. Look at their thinking, how retarded can one get? And then there is the POC government racism being levied at Whites. Here in California one of the big cities (mostly Hispanic) just passed a Communist-Democrat poverty payment law, where the poor (Blacks and Browns) who have less than $12,000 income per year, will be paid by the local Communist-Democrat government, an additional $1200 per month (its a blue vote getter law), but the poor Whites are not eligible, --fairly discriminatory racism against, US. Remind anyone of Germany in the 1930s? The Blue Communists are claiming that we Whities are behaving like the Nazis.
But wait....the Blacks are only 14% of the population, so why is the Communist controlled news media focusing on them? The Hispanics are 33%, and are streaming into the country through the unWalled areas of the southern US Border?
Soon, amnesty American-Hispanics and their 12 offspring (Catholics don't embrace birth-control, and the free-meal supports lots of) kids will become the majority population ethnicity, and White America (we are the good part) will never be able to be a free Democratic country again. The Hispanics are coming from socialist countries, they think 'socialist', and they are not coming here for our idealogy, but for the blue US Communist government promise of amnesty and the 'free-meal', in exchange for blue Communist votes. Capece?
Do not be confused by all the smoke and mirrors of the propaganda stations...that is the plan. That is what is happening right now and we, the Whites are being victimized as being racists, to obfuscate the actual plan which is well in motion to overthrow our way of life.
Communication via the InterNet is too dangerous, too many spies watching EVERYTHING we do and write. Land-Line, wired, telephone pole communication is much more private. While InterNet usage with encrypted e-mail, usage of an e-mail matched VPN provider and No-Script is a fairly safe strategy, but not perfect.
My prediction is that a Civil-War is in the works, unfortunately there is likely no way around it, its gotta be done to save the country's ideology and way of life. It is now a matter of when. It'll be in the guise of a race war, but in reality it is Democracy against the Communists. Again, it's the Donkeys vs the Elephants, with a highly organized Communist bias.
China is really nasty....it is my opinion that CoVid was a Chinese Communist biological weapon attack on the US. They didn't care how many people they killed to get Trump out of power.
My Qabalah mentor has called these the 'Dark-Times'.
The shi.t-storm has begun....
Hi Plutronus, starting to read your post I felt relief that I am not alone in seeing that Chauvin's (& and other responding officers') presumed innocence, as well as the possibility of being found not guilty by the Court are vital legal and real world positions. I agree with you this was an attempted arrest, devoid of any bad intent. Police tactics and methods of restraint employed I believe to have been appropriate, progressively upgraded to the knee restraint by Derek Chauvin in response to George Floyd's continued pattern of non compliance. However, as the officers gained control of the suspect being held down for 9:29 min, responsibility and duty for his care came to rest squarely on their shoulders. Chauvin, preferably testifying in person (risky - self incrimination), should make clear he did everything reasonably expected of him to keep Floyd alive.
To the rest of your post, the Black v. White war(?), I respectfully disagree. First I hope and believe there exist a majority of decent and reasonable people of every color who will succeed in 'all getting along'. The spreading of Democracy and Literacy might help some. As to the topic DTP2: Derek Michael Chauvin I think you've gone off topic (and back on your fav 'pet theory'  ). Imo the LAST thing Chauvin needs is to figure in a greater race war, somehow championing the 'white cause'. I fear CNN and Black Lives Matter are framing him and Floyd's death precisely in those terms. Plutro, if the Jury were to buy into that meme, Derek Chauvin has no chance at all at fairness or even acquittal. He's being set up for political martyrdom / collateral damage (depending on perspective), and that's no defense at all.
Race begone. I want to know what really happened during Floyd's arrest (and so should the Jury) and based on that alone this police officer should be judged, punished or set free.
purr
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Post by purr on Apr 2, 2021 7:35:43 GMT
Above as promised are two of the newer videos, the Cup Foods security footage and Police Body Cam angle, released to the public. Both as I write have been introduced by the Prosecution aimed at 'taking the sting out' of the fact that George Floyd was allegedly committing a crime, as well as being high / under the influence immediately before and during his fatal arrest. Plus Floyd's continued resistance to responding officers, opening to the question of an appropriate police response.
To any member or reader wishing to consider (rather than assume beforehand) the guilt/innocence of Derek Chauvin I recommend viewing these vids at length & in detail.
Ask if you please: WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?
purr
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Post by thelmadonna on Apr 2, 2021 9:06:49 GMT
Well Purr I applaud your lawyer-like abilities to switch off,explain to me, the man was cuffed,why 4 to hold him down, did they think he was SuperHuman. The minute he peed the pavement, he was dead.Why did it continue. The officer was getting his rocks off.
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Post by ZETAR on Apr 2, 2021 18:16:11 GMT
SHALOM...Z Thanks ZETAR, any potent drug cocktail found to have been in Floyd's blood during his bizarre interactions with law enforcement officers trying varying tacks towards getting compliance, well actually getting degrees of non-compliance whether instructing show of hands (don't shoot me!), exit vehicle, take a seat in cruiser (refusal due to claustrophobia, 'can't breathe' and being 'choked'). He did for a minute sit down as asked on the sidewalk, chatting pleasantly enough with the officer, but the calming down effect did not last. Agitated was the default. ZETAR, I intend to get into the details of his wording and expressed emotion, worthwhile doing, but on the face of it mr. Floyd was all over the place. During minutes before Derek Chauvin arrived and after George Floyd was non-compliant, resisting, talked about getting shot, said he was scared, talked about his mama, sounded off as being the victim of police violence, and fatefully, when instructed to sit, requested to be put on the ground (I'm going down). Floyd also already was repeating his mantra or plea "I can't breathe". THIS IS THE KIND OF SCENE EXPERIENCED OFFICER CHAUVIN WAS CONFRONTED WITH. How his lawyers introduce this type of information into the trial is a matter of legal strategy, adaptive to American law and the peculiarities of engaging the Jury, something beyond my purview. If I were arriving at that arrest scene I might well get a sense that George Floyd was putting up a grand performance of many parts, victim of racial oppression, of police brutality, switching from reasonable to madman, making up excuses for his troublesome behaviors as he went along AND PLAYING POLICE who were being calm and professional attempting to talk him down (yet to no avail). Contrary to erroneous reporting, never was a gun aimed at George Floyd's head, instead one was briefly lined up with the ground before his feet. At this point Chauvin decided to apply the ground restraint, in an ultimate attempt to calm the suspect down, resulting in the horrific and deeply troubling Youtubes, and during which endless 9:29 minutes Floyd went from imho performing as Black Martyr for cams and sidewalk public to sadly dying for real, hopefully in the end going to his Mama and Jesus who from first Good Friday onward knows all about human suffering and loves all wrongdoers and fools. I better include myself too in such categories.
You may expect me to argue (as I have been doing Ad Nauseum) that Chauvin and his fellow officers' actions and apparent intent are not consistent with the crime of murder in any degree. Police were affecting an arrest and it went horribly wrong...
purr
PARDON MY CYNICISM...
SHALOM...Z
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Post by gus on Apr 2, 2021 23:00:20 GMT
I tell you what guys I have a game we can play. How about you volunteer a dearly loved family member and I can cuff them then put them on the ground and put my knee on there neck.......until they die.
Now the next person who posts something pro police has to put up a name.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 23:51:05 GMT
I tell you what guys I have a game we can play. How about you volunteer a dearly loved family member and I can cuff them then put them on the ground and put my knee on there neck.......until they die. Now the next person who posts something pro police has to put up a name. Gus, What ya wanna call it ? Resist ? Risk ? Life ?  |
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Post by gus on Apr 3, 2021 0:24:35 GMT
I tell you what guys I have a game we can play. How about you volunteer a dearly loved family member and I can cuff them then put them on the ground and put my knee on there neck.......until they die. Now the next person who posts something pro police has to put up a name. Gus, What ya wanna call it ? Resist ? Risk ? Life ? Let's call it the "George Floyd Reenactment Game" but in this game you get to nominate someone you truly deeply love. Then we might get some empathy moving. |
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Post by gus on Apr 3, 2021 0:29:06 GMT
My point being is that it would be nice that when you get arrested it doesn't lead to cold blooded murder.
That would be a great start.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 0:50:23 GMT
Gus, What ya wanna call it ? Resist ? Risk ? Life ? Let's call it the "George Floyd Reenactment Game" but in this game you get to nominate someone you truly deeply love. Then we might get some empathy moving. How about instead of re-enacting, we help prevent it in the future. Stay off drugs, don't go out in public when you're sick with covid, don't use counterfeit money, don't resist arrest. There's a good start. Maybe that will help ? |
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Post by gus on Apr 3, 2021 2:04:55 GMT
Let's call it the "George Floyd Reenactment Game" but in this game you get to nominate someone you truly deeply love. Then we might get some empathy moving. How about instead of re-enacting, we help prevent it in the future. Stay off drugs, don't go out in public when you're sick with covid, don't use counterfeit money, don't resist arrest. There's a good start. Maybe that will help ? No excuse for murder |
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Post by purr on Apr 3, 2021 8:47:01 GMT
My point being is that it would be nice that when you get arrested it doesn't lead to cold blooded murder. That would be a great start. Gus, your posts show a lot of heart and I respect that immensely. But let's set the standard for a successful police arrest a bit higher OK? When making an arrest the suspect should be taken into custody, allowing for reasonable force used, ALIVE and UNHARMED. (Certainly not in the morgue.) purr
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). Imo the LAST thing Chauvin needs is to figure in a greater race war, somehow championing the 'white cause'. I fear CNN and Black Lives Matter are framing him and Floyd's death precisely in those terms. Plutro, if the Jury were to buy into that meme, Derek Chauvin has no chance at all at fairness or even acquittal. He's being set up for political martyrdom / collateral damage (depending on perspective), and that's no defense at all.
