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Post by purr on Apr 14, 2021 17:28:41 GMT
What really happened during George Floyd's arrest?
Short of Chauvin taking the stand and fully explaining his actions and state of mind during the arrest of mr. Floyd to the jury's satisfaction, is there an interpretation of the evidence, the videorecord, expert and eye witness testimony that points to acquittal? The defense team is already fighting this great and terrible fight, with their client's reputation, life (...yes....think it through...) and freedom in the balance, for real in the courtroom. Godbless youguys!
Now here's my personal take on the arrest of Floyd and his death while in police custody. It did not start when Chauvin applied a knee restraint to George Floyd's neck and upper back. It began, as we learn from Floyd's girlfriend Courteney Ross' testimony, as he sat in the car parked across from Cup Foods with a "supplier" or drugs dealer just prior to entering that store with the fake $20 for sigs in an 'altered state of mind' or 'high' or 'appearing to have used something'. Floyd with a history of having OD'ed (getting hospitalized) before, of "struggling" with addiction has left the meeting with a drugsdealer and gone shopping as a potentially harmful/deadly dosis of fentanyl is being carried into his bloodstream.
How do we know George Floyd has imbued a potentially deadly dosage of drugs? Because Medical Examiner Andrew Baker alludes to a hypothetical stating that IF Floyd had been found deceased at home with doors closed his finding would have been Cause of Death = Fentanyl OD.
And it's Floyd leaving the store with his sigarettes crossing the intersection back to the vehicle with his waiting 'supplier' and one more passenger. He gets in, closing the door without succumbing to Claustrophobia (he will claim this disorder coming on acutely minutes later in Kuen and Lane's police car). Called by the Cup Foods staff, officers Kuen and Lane approach him as he still sits behind the wheel, high on fentanyl (and maybe increasingly so?), and begin questioning / instructing him to show hands and exit car. These are 10 minutes worth of Kuen and Lane attempting to talk to and take in a suspect of passing counterfeit/shoplifting, but getting a weird and mostly non-compliant response. Floyd states he "can't breathe" due to the early (and worsening) stages of fentanyl induced hypoxia/insufficient oxygen supply to the body tissues. He expresses feelings of acute claustrophobia and fear of getting shot and dying, as well as resisting attempts to talk him down and sit him in the back of the police car. Kuen and Lane ARE TALKING TO THE FENTANYL, and come what may 'Floyd is not that kind of guy' etc. etc. in short this suspect is not coming quietly or, at all. At the end of the delay, lasting nearly ten minutes, Kuen and Lane have attracted onlookers, folks heckling police (voicing increasing concern/indignation over Floyd's subdual and restraint) and appearing to move in.
Chauvin with partner Thao arrives, sees two fellow officers stymied by Floyd's antics and as senior officer takes charge. Floyd is still refusing to be placed inside a police vehicle and requests to be put on the ground.
It is time to get real on Chauvin's state of mind, his use of a knee restraint and use of force overall. I don't know for sure because I cannot look into a man's heart. But I read all the transcripts, every bit of reporting and commentary I could access and as much of the vids as possible, plus playing repeats and frame by frame where relevant, stuff available to the whole world provided you can use a computer, the internet and in my case Google Search. Imo from the evidence a picture emerges. Just this afternoon I watched the 'latest' youtube, police bodycam video of a previous arrest of George Floyd, now introduced by the Defense, presumably intended to show Floyd's non compliance with police constitutes a pattern of behavior over time. Is Floyd resisting because he resents the police, or because his drug addiction makes him act crazy, or a bit of both?
Chauvin arrives at the application of the knee restraint on a proned out George Floyd by processing Lane and Kuen's apparent inability to control Floyd while standing or directed into a sitting position. This ah.. sitshow could go on for a hour, still no joy except they might be all frolicking at the center of a riot. Solve the problem. We hear Floyd asking to be placed on the ground. Police already believes an irrational, strong, resisting suspect 'has used something'. Officer Chauvin moves with Floyd, placing him belly down on the ground and engaging his continued wiggling and talking by attempting to immobilize and calm him down with a knee restraint. Consistent with such intent, Kuen and Lane assisted by exerting simultaneous downward pressure on Floyd's torso and legs.
How do we know Chauvin's knee wasn't applied with the intent to cause injury or to kill? Because prosecution witness and Use Of Force expert Sergeant Stiger attests to the knee restraint's potential to cause positional asphyxia/suffocation, noting specifically her video analysis indicated Chauvin applied the same force throughout. I'm already on record in thread saying much the same, based on my involvement in the martial arts, that this downward pin is very dangerous and potentially incapacitating (read: resulting in loss of consciousness/death) in short order. If Chauvin indeed had born down with great force, he would have violently suffocated George Floyd and probably left distinctive marks of asphyxia related injuries in neck and throat area. Medical Examiner Andrew Baker reports finding no petachea or ligature marks in Floyd's neck and furthermore states he didn't believe the neck compression could have restricted air or bloodflow to the brain. I submit to you, all reading with an open mind, that had Derek Chauvin been applying a powerful knee restraint to Floyd's neck with the same injurous, deadly force throughout some nine minutes ME Baker would have found some outward clear signs of violent asphyxia. But the ME found none, leading him to believe Floyd's level of neck compression HAD NOT RESTRICTED AIR OR BLOOD FLOW.
Meaning that officer Chauvin was intentionally dialing down the downward pressure, applying just enough force to keep Floyd pinned down until, hopefully, he calmed down and would allow being moved to the station. A carefully limited amount of force as applied with the knee restraint points to a whole new set of problems: Chauvin had to diagnose and address a suspect's level of intoxication, his neurological and psychiatric condition, as well as find a way to modify his behavior so he could carry out the arrest and ensure the suspect's, his fellow officers' and own safety. Tall order for a police officer who is not an MD. Putting George Floyd on the ground as he asked, FOR BETTER OR WORSE, may have seemed like a good idea at the time in Derek Chauvin's mind.
Chauvin may have tried on the basis of his incomplete understanding of Floyds severe and deteriorating intoxication, to attempt to use the knee restraint to immobilize and create a kind of time-out, calm the guy down, move him outta there. As senior arresting officer charged with a duty of care he must be held accountable for failing to keep George Floyd safe and alive. HOWEVER the finding of the ME of a lack of signs of violent asphyxia, and of air and blood flow not having been impeded by the extensive police restraint, makes it likely that Chauvin limited and controlled the force applied on George Floyd's neck and upper back, which in turn opens to the possibility that Chauvin did not intend to injure or kill, but rather intended to avoid Floyd as well as the arresting officers coming to harm. Allowing for the special formulation of Minnesota law on murder and manslaughter I might add that forensic evidence that Chauvin was limiting the force applied also militates against 'disregard for life' / demonstrating a Depraved Mind. As it happens I am an exceedingly simple person and having made a compelling argument against harmful intention on Derek Chauvin's part I'd expect absence of malice to immunize him from the lesser manslaughter charge as well. (On condition I got it right and the Jury reasoning along approximately the same lines.)
And on 'simplicity', if you look at the facts of the case and sequence of events for Floyd's arrest NO GENIUS NEEDED to understand the bearing Floyd's drug addiction (and getting high on fentanyl prior to the arrest) had on all that transpired. Why did he have to pay with a counterfeit 20, and get reported to police, unless it was because he spent his real money on buying the fentanyl first? Why did the senior Chauvin have to render assistance to first responders Kuen & Lane, unless it was because he had had "too many drugs" causing the non-compliant, increasingly hypoxic "I CAN'T BREATHE" 10 minute delay in Kuen/Lane taking him along to the police station. And why didn't Chauvin, obviously under the glare of countless cameras, show the kind of furtive behavior in keeping with a guy committing MURDER ONE realizing EVERYBODY IS RECORDING. We see Chauvin keeping Floyd under his knee restraint while looking directly (...YA'ALL GO U-TUBE YO'SELF WHY DON'TYA..!) at the filming public. This police officer, right or wrong, in his mind believed he was doing his job just right! In dividing his attention between loud/nearby onlookers and George Floyd he may have missed some signs of distress. Near the end of the fateful nine minutes of police restraint on Floyd a officer Lane checks but cannot find a pulse. Not convinced, Chauvin continues pinning Floyd down, perhaps thinking Floyd had now changed tactics to 'playing dead'. Then arriving paramedics Bravinder and Smith check too and detect no heartbeat and immediately on being notified officer Chauvin shifts his weight off Floyd quickly, followed by stepping away and roughly helping the paramedics move an unresponsive Floyd onto a gurney and into an ambulance. Like member Plutronus aptly observed, this officer seems to be making a couple of terrible mistakes in a row. He missed/failed to appreciate Floyd losing consciousness. He did not trust Lane's negative pulse check. HE MISSED THE BIGGER PICTURE OF FLOYD OD'ING WHILE THE ARREST WENT ON.
None of the above warrants charging officer Derek Michael Chauvin with murder or manslaughter, whatever the degree.
With this I'm done, a mere layperson bringing everything together to share my opinion, my sense of it all, that Chauvin wasn't a murderer. Yet a suspect died in his custody so he should answer for that. In fairness, in order to have a shot at saving George Floyd's life that day, the responding officers needed to have had medical expertise at a level they were not trained for. IMHO THEY DID THE BEST THEY COULD.
Final thought. I find Chauvin's law enforcement colleagues' support for a team mate in legal jeopardy underwhelming, why so quiet? Chief of MPD Arradondo (hope I didn't misspell) as well as other high ranking officers' testimony I'd characterize as deficient in loyalty, disingenuous in their disavowal, best described as the American expression goes 'throwing one under a bus'. Disgusting...
But that's just me, I hope I haven't ranted or rambled purr
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Post by ZETAR on Apr 15, 2021 2:35:14 GMT
"Final thought. I find Chauvin's law enforcement colleagues' support for a team mate in legal jeopardy underwhelming, why so quiet? Chief of MPD Arradondo (hope I didn't misspell) as well as other high ranking officers' testimony I'd characterize as deficient in loyalty, disingenuous in their disavowal, best described as the American expression goes 'throwing one under a bus'. Disgusting..."
SHALOM...Z
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Post by ZETAR on Apr 15, 2021 14:22:27 GMT
"BIG QUESTION: would you be prepared to speculate / share insight as to who is making such purported play and the objective?"
LOL...THERE'S MANY LAYERS TO THAT/THOSE ONION(S) BUT YES...IN DUE TIME
SHALOM...Z
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Post by plutronus on Apr 23, 2021 13:40:30 GMT
They say it can't happen here, but it sure did happen in Germany.
The latest BLM (big lousy mob) dictates from 'George Floyd Memorial Park' (where Floyd died in front the store which apparently has been forced to close its doors), regarding how Whites are required to behave within its confines, --reminds me of how the Nazis activists (initially a secret developing political party) began treating the local Jewish people in 1932 Germany.
My grandmother Victoria Hoenzollern, who, at 25yro, luckily immigrated to the US in 1935, told me how the German activists, (very much like the BLM and antifa) were treating the Jewish people, which was the reason why she and her family escaped from Germany.
A 30 yr long-term friend, a Polish Jewish skating pal of mine, his family (when he was a teenager) immigrated illegally to the US, were caught and were deported, eventually gaining legal US Citizenship, also informed me, over the years that his parents who were from Poland, were enslaved by the Nazis in Buchenwald, a Nazis concentration 'labor camp', they barely survived, and were among the tens of thousands liberated from that camp by units of General Eisenhower's US 6th Army.
The mistreatment began with dictates of how to behave in German public places under the auspice of the Nazis activists' "critical race theory", sound familar?
Collectively, I was informed, that later, the Jewish people were required to wear a Star-of-David arm-band to identify that they were not German (that won't be required of us, as is easy to see that we are not Black), then the Jewish public were not allowed to walk on the sidewalks, but rather in the street gutters as second class citizens, and then were not allowed to eat in German restaurants. By that period the academic segregations were occurring. More rules and dictates followed until, the Nazis were fully in power, after which, the "final solution", was encarcerating Jewish undesirables, gypsies, and any other race that did not meet the German critical race mandate. The poor souls were transported enmass into concentration camps, where German monsters worked them as slaves, exterminating others who were not useful, gassing them, shooting, raping, conducted bizzar medical experiments, especially on twin children...I've heard some really nasty stories...evil acts.
A freind of my Mother's, had been an US Army reconnaisance pilot, shot down over Germany. He was encarcerated in Berkenau concentration camp. <s> In Albuquerque, New Mexico, 1967, he showed me a leather knife scabbard, pointing out to me the fineness of the leather, how smooth and soft it was, and turning it over, revealing the tattooed serial number on the leather. It had been the skin of the backside of a young Jewish woman's forearm. He had acquired the scabbard after having been liberated from the camp by the advancing Russian Army. There is more to that story. But the point being, it all started with small highly vocal rampaging groups of activists, behaving much like the BLM activists and the terrorist antifa group...we need to nip this in the bud while we still can. Defunding the police is retarded.
The Black 'critical race' Nazis activists demands for 'justice' won't be satisified until they 'own us'.
Fortunately, I know a number of Black-Americans, smart guys, who are friends, that think that all the ongoing 'race' crap being promoted by the black activists is utter BS! Otherwise I might be convinced that all blacks hate whitie guts, however, it is not true. But there is a problem. The US Black population is only 14% of the total US population, while Hispanics (shortly will include all the illegal foreign national soon to be amnesty Hispanic American Citizens granted by Pr Jose' Biden, and camal fattbutt Harris, who have allowed 168,000 illegal crossing since Jose Biden took office), are presently 33% of the US Population. The Blacks and the Browns, the Democrat Free-Meal community, hold a significant degree of US government control. The powers-that-be, are using the Blacks to obfuscate public awareness of their actual agenda, which I believe is the creation of a one party, Democrat Party dictatorship, which I suspect is the result of Communist agents operating to effect that dictatorship. The US fiddles around with everyone else's country, why wouldn't the Russians or the Chinese or the Arabs or ???, why not fiddle with us? We are so arrogantly stupid, it is incredible.
However, the police do need some type of FUNCTIONAL public oversight as well as...they need a non-fatal deterrence weapon...they need StarTrek phasors, but that technology isn't available. But I have tracked down something that might be a practical alternative.
See:
Basically it is a high-performance paint-ball 'launcher' (formerly known as 'gun') which shoots ball projectiles, which are .68inch/17,27mm diameter, while the clip only holds file 'rounds'. There are three types of balls that can be shot: 1) 'mace', 2) 'inert' and 3) 'kinetics'. The mace or 'pepper' ball pops on impact on the target, creating a fairly large cloud of irritant. The so-called 'inerts' are filled with talcum power, and pop, again creating a large cloud, while obstructing vision and then the 'kinetic' rounds literally imprint dents in metal. All three may be loaded into launcher's magazine, which as I said, only holds 5 rounds per clip. Watch the videos on utoob, these launchers are not toys and are effective deterents. Some state Democrat states ban certain types of the rounds, MexiCalifornia is one. However, since these launchers are not black-powder powered, are not classified as being a firearm, and therefore do not requirement registration or permits to open-carry. But I recommend that either the 'yellow' or the 'safety orange' be carried so as not to become a police shooting victum!! These launchers are engineered to appear similar to the 9mm Ruger firearm.
While is possible to accidentally kill someone with these 'less-lethal' type alternative weapons, usage normally does not. However, it'll splatter an eyeball out one's ears should one be shot in the eye! It is always easier to shoot the large area of the body, such as the torso and the launcher is specifically designed for that.
The knife wielding black teenage girl, "I'm gonna stab the f..k out of you b..ch", who was shot by police in Ohio might have been able to be stopped without killing her had one of these less-lethal launchers been used. Taser, Air-Launcher and firearm could be carried by peace-officers. For right handed officers, the auncher would be located on the right, holstered and be used unless something more effective need be employed, such as a firearm, which would be located on the left-side of the officer, holstered, so that the firearm couldn't be accidentally drawn and discharged as was the case in the confusion of the taser/firearm accidental shooting recently.
Something to consider.
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Post by purr on Apr 24, 2021 9:24:55 GMT
They say it can't happen here, but it sure did happen in Germany.
The latest BLM (big lousy mob) dictates from 'George Floyd Memorial Park' (where Floyd died in front the store which apparently has been forced to close its doors), regarding how Whites are required to behave within its confines, --reminds me of how the Nazis activists (initially a secret developing political party) began treating the local Jewish people in 1932 Germany.
My grandmother Victoria Hoenzollern, who, at 25yro, luckily immigrated to the US in 1935, told me how the German activists, (very much like the BLM and antifa) were treating the Jewish people, which was the reason why she and her family escaped from Germany.
A 30 yr long-term friend, a Polish Jewish skating pal of mine, his family (when he was a teenager) immigrated illegally to the US, were caught and were deported, eventually gaining legal US Citizenship, also informed me, over the years that his parents who were from Poland, were enslaved by the Nazis in Buchenwald, a Nazis concentration 'labor camp', they barely survived, and were among the tens of thousands liberated from that camp by units of General Eisenhower's US 6th Army.
The mistreatment began with dictates of how to behave in German public places under the auspice of the Nazis activists' "critical race theory", sound familar?
Collectively, I was informed, that later, the Jewish people were required to wear a Star-of-David arm-band to identify that they were not German (that won't be required of us, as is easy to see that we are not Black), then the Jewish public were not allowed to walk on the sidewalks, but rather in the street gutters as second class citizens, and then were not allowed to eat in German restaurants. By that period the academic segregations were occurring. More rules and dictates followed until, the Nazis were fully in power, after which, the "final solution", was encarcerating Jewish undesirables, gypsies, and any other race that did not meet the German critical race mandate. The poor souls were transported enmass into concentration camps, where German monsters worked them as slaves, exterminating others who were not useful, gassing them, shooting, raping, conducted bizzar medical experiments, especially on twin children...I've heard some really nasty stories...evil acts.
A freind of my Mother's, had been an US Army reconnaisance pilot, shot down over Germany. He was encarcerated in Berkenau concentration camp. <s> In Albuquerque, New Mexico, 1967, he showed me a leather knife scabbard, pointing out to me the fineness of the leather, how smooth and soft it was, and turning it over, revealing the tattooed serial number on the leather. It had been the skin of the backside of a young Jewish woman's forearm. He had acquired the scabbard after having been liberated from the camp by the advancing Russian Army. There is more to that story. But the point being, it all started with small highly vocal rampaging groups of activists, behaving much like the BLM activists and the terrorist antifa group...we need to nip this in the bud while we still can. Defunding the police is retarded.
The Black 'critical race' Nazis activists demands for 'justice' won't be satisified until they 'own us'.
Fortunately, I know a number of Black-Americans, smart guys, who are friends, that think that all the ongoing 'race' crap being promoted by the black activists is utter BS! Otherwise I might be convinced that all blacks hate whitie guts, however, it is not true. But there is a problem. The US Black population is only 14% of the total US population, while Hispanics (shortly will include all the illegal foreign national soon to be amnesty Hispanic American Citizens granted by Pr Jose' Biden, and camal fattbutt Harris, who have allowed 168,000 illegal crossing since Jose Biden took office), are presently 33% of the US Population. The Blacks and the Browns, the Democrat Free-Meal community, hold a significant degree of US government control. The powers-that-be, are using the Blacks to obfuscate public awareness of their actual agenda, which I believe is the creation of a one party, Democrat Party dictatorship, which I suspect is the result of Communist agents operating to effect that dictatorship. The US fiddles around with everyone else's country, why wouldn't the Russians or the Chinese or the Arabs or , why not fiddle with us? We are so arrogantly stupid, it is incredible. However, the police do need some type of FUNCTIONAL public oversight as well as...they need a non-fatal deterrence weapon...they need StarTrek phasors, but that technology isn't available. But I have tracked down something that might be a practical alternative. See:
Basically it is a high-performance paint-ball 'launcher' (formerly known as 'gun') where the balls are .68inch/17,27mm diameters, which can be filled with mace and pop on impact on the perpetrator. The socalled 'inerts' do not pop, and literally imprint dents in metal. While is possible to accidentally kill someone with this weapon, usage normally does not. It'll squish an eyeball out one's ears should one be shot there! The teenager who was shot in Ohio might have been able to be stopped without killing her had one of these weapons been used. Taser, Air-Launcher and gun could be carried by a peace-officer. For right handed officers, the Air-Launcher could right holstered and be used unless something more effective need be employed, which would be located on the left-side of the officer, so that the gun can't be accidentally drawn and discharged. Something to consider.
Plutronus, interesting post. First at an emotional level I'm in a state of shock from the across the board harsh jury verdict of Derek Chauvin, as I indicated even allowing for Minnesota manslaughter/murder law (which has that slippery slope feel of ...once you're charged there, acts that might be considered 'accidents' elsewhere in the US and other western countries are more likely to amount to AT THE VERY LEAST a form of manslaughter) I was flabbergasted by the 3 counts of 'Guilty'. I stand by my previous factual reasoning in this topic intended to show grounds for Chauvin's complete or partial acquittal. I suspect what we have here is a profoundly sad miscarriage of justice and his defense team should appeal and take their case to the highest court. That said, I know how to play by the rules. To me America is a friendly nation of laws and in the end you all are free to choose your own form of Justice. Looking in from afar and outside, my faith in the American justice system has been badly shaken though... I can empathize with your story of grandmother and your Polish fellow skater, myself I've been formed by an extended multi-ethnic Dutch family who lived through WWII, that is, many did not from resisting or simply suffering the Nazi German occupation of the Netherlands and those who came out, INCLUDING generations following, were affected, changed forever. I became a serious martial artist at age six, Judo player, never looked back in order to be ready for the next Hitler invading the Netherlands (of course this was 100% childish reasoning ) and over time realized WWIII may turn out entirely different and once again catch us by surprise just as our esteemed German neighbors did in the 1940's! One of my Sensei cautioned me "be ready for anything". I would not paint BLM with the strokes of an overly loosely demonizing brush. Inevitably the movement will include some well meaning and smart people who genuinely strife to further emancipate black people in America. I wish for Blacks to thrive equally to all others and am cheerleader for every step forward, ending slavery, ending segregation and having had Obama as POTUS. The past years of framing police use of force as 'brutality' in the US imho is not such a positive step. I disagree with you this has to lead inexorably to white people becoming persecuted as Jews once were, and some 1 Dem Party system. But it is bad for America, it is bad for America's black community because they are basing police reforms, and the fight against racism on imo unjust treatment of individual police officers, or call them individual persons, and that is the kind of thing that will circle back and bite a society in the but tocks. To be right as a people, you've got to do right by one person. (Repeat many times over.)
purr
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Post by ZETAR on Apr 24, 2021 16:52:14 GMT
PROLIFIC OBSERVATION! WHILE MOST ARE...
PURR OBSERVES,
"I was flabbergasted by the 3 counts of 'Guilty'"
SHALOM...Z
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Post by plutronus on Apr 25, 2021 12:56:22 GMT
<deletia> I would not paint BLM with the strokes of an overly loosely demonizing brush. Inevitably the movement will include some well meaning and smart people who genuinely strife to further emancipate black people in America. I wish for Blacks to thrive equally to all others and am cheerleader for every step forward, ending slavery, ending segregation and having had Obama as POTUS. The past years of framing police use of force as 'brutality' in the US imho is not such a positive step. I disagree with you this has to lead inexorably to white people becoming persecuted as Jews once were, and some 1 Dem Party system. But it is bad for America, it is bad for America's black community because they are basing police reforms, and the fight against racism on imo unjust treatment of individual police officers, or call them individual persons, and that is the kind of thing that will circle back and bite a society in the but tocks. To be right as a people, you've got to do right by one person. (Repeat many times over.)
purr
Purr, (I apologize re; the length of this reply, and I'll likely not post anything further regarding anything that is happening here in America...I've grown weary of it all),
For starters, outsiders, never have an accurate understanding of the inner workings of someone else's country. One must live there to know of, and understand the intimate details.
>I would not paint BLM with the strokes of an overly loosely demonizing brush.
My first personal contact with BLM, was being shot at by a BLMer with a gun while he was riding in the backseat of a car, covered in printed BLM slogans, following slowly, behind the BLM marchers on a nearby street, and their painting my beautiful redwood fence with their slogans, ruining the decor of my property. BLM is anti-white American racist, destructive, hateful, misbehaving hoodlums. It leaves a BAD taste in me. If it were up to me, any of them, including the 'woke' whites, who commited crimes of looting, burning, beating old people, murdering, painting graffiti on streets and buildings, tearing down statues, I'd cut off their welfare checks and deport them to Africa...kick'm out! Let them go live with their bro's and fix the country of their genetic birth.
>Inevitably the movement will include some well meaning and smart people...
I have not seen anything smart in that group. Or do you mean the 'wokes'? Everyone around here call them the "sleepwalkers", as they are so clueless.
>...who genuinely strive to further emancipate black people in America.
Emancipate blacks from what? Their biggest problem is themselves. We White Americans fought a civil-war to emancipate the slaves a 156 years ago, killing something on the order of 2 million American soldiers, fighting for their emancipation. The blacks were emancipated from the Democrats who owned them, mainly English and Spanairds. Me, a European-American German, my family never partook in any slaving, we did not immigrate to America until after the civil-war. My family and I owe them NOTHING.
We Whities, feed them, pay for their housing, educate them (they tear up, turning their schools into ghetto sh.it-holes along with everything else they are around), we employ them via 'Equal Opportunity' quota hiring in government offices, because they can't get regular employment as everyone else does, and is one of the reasons there are so many blacks in American government, (also is an element of why the US Guv is so dysfunctional), and we provide free hospitalization and medical services. We pay for it all. How's that for reparation?
During the 1994 LA Riots, the blacks looted and burned hundreds of businesses, buildings, schools, cars, --other people's things, but they did not touch the US Post Offices. Why? That is where their Welfare checks were mailed.
The only racism that I've seen in the past 30 years and I have lived and worked in 38 states of the US...eg., all over the country, was that perpetrated by the blacks upon everyone else, including Hispanics.
What more can we do for them, Purr?
Now they want us to ignore them while committing their crimes. Everytime the police are called it is because there is a black committing a crime, and blacks ALLWAYS have a weapon. Rodney King on TV at one time said, "Can't we all just get along?", but what blacks really mean, "Can't y'all just leave us alone while we commit our crimes?"
They are essentially getting their demand, by causing the defunding and disbanding of the police agencies.
Right now as I write this, there are five homeless Hispanics, and four blacks living in cars parked next to my home. I've paid my pricey taxes here for the past 40 years. These people are urinating, and pooping in my yard's bushes outside of my fence while throwing their garbage everywhere and watching my actions through my windows. The city councile recently revoked the ordinance which disallowed that homeless behavior. The police can not legally do anything about it, and now when there are more serious crimes, which are starting to occur in the neighborhood, while everyone is at work, things such as car thefts, burgleries, home invasions, daylight robberies of people exercising in the streets, --the police don't even come out. They are all quitting. The LA City Councile, a Hispanic sanctuary councile, has cut a huge amount of money from the police department and there are not enough police officers remaining in LA, a city of 3 million whites and 25 million illegal/amnesty Hispanic alien-Americans to respond to anything except the highest priority events. Your news over there disclose that little trivia?
Purr, you sound as though you got it good where you live.
America used to be safe, but then we gave blacks the right to own guns. Some more emancipation. There was a time when automobiles had no door or ignition locks. We never locked our house, in El Paso, or Oklahoma, or California. It was safe here in America. But that is no longer true. America is filling up with many immigrant scumbags and the growing misbehaviors of the blacks.
>I wish for Blacks to thrive equally to all others...
I agree. And in a perfect world, it would be wonderful. Truely, few things would be please me more than to see Black-Americans happy and be fully able to be equal.
However, let us be clear...Blacks are free, just like everyone else here in America. There is no reason for the blacks to be emancipated, because they are free. Unfortunately, they just don't think like whites, but they desire equal treatment, while blacks are equal with us in everything that is 'giveable'.
Now, the blacks are imposing 'equity', and what that really means is that they want us to intellectually drop to their level of existence and thinking, then, in theory, they will feel equal with whites. Currently, the blacks are claiming that white teachings in schools is racist, and one of those is mathematics, in high-schools. So they desire that high-schools stop teaching algebra and trigonometry. How are graduates to become employed in our technical civilization without having been taught mathematics?
Statistic surveys reveal that Black students are scholastically behind in every school subject, why? But in any case the BLM are demanding that whites intellectual school studies be lowered to their level, to afford mutual equality..."equity".
You embrace that type equality? If they can't keep up, its their problem not ours and there is nothing that we can give to them, that we haven't already given. So we have to become as uneducatable as they are to enable them to be equal? I am not in lockstep with that type thinking and I suspect you are not either? Putting it another way, would you allow your kids to attend a school where math and literary subjects aren't being taught because a certain class of kids can't keep up with your kids?
That is what is happening right now, here, in America. Don't believe everything you hear or see on Corrupt Negative News, a socialist propaganda station.
>ending slavery, ending segregation and having had Obama as POTUS.
What slavery? And right now, the blacks re-instituting segregation in the college schools, they are segregating the whites, the Chinese and the Hispanics into each of their own class-types from their class type. That is specifically segregation and they are instituting it.
And Pr Obama, did some good things such as breaking the strangle-hold that the oil-companies had in suppressing solar-voltaic technology. I embrace solar energy. He did a few other things also, but he lost my respect when he CENSORED the British Petroleum oil-spill along the Louisiana/Mississippi coast, making it a felony to photograph and-or write anything anywhere in the US in the press or via the InterNet about the clean-up.
And the thing that really torqued my brain, Obama bin ladin, also invited, four black activists affiliated with the United Nations, all four of whom are associated with black African terror groups, to visit and write a report on racial status in the US, which they did. They were granted access to everything except the US prision system. They did not interview any Whites. The 495 page document was presented to Pr Obama. Many of the very negative, socialistic BLM phrases and slogans originated in that highly anti-White biased report.
I have read that racist UN report. It is a socialist diatribe against American Democracy,, in my opinion.
Interestingly, the UN report mirrors elements as reported in a Royal British South African report regarding the colonization, the development and the eventual overthrow of the South African White Government by warring black African terrorist groups, initally led by Mandela. Nobelist. Obama was awarded the Nobel Prize, because he is Black. I found the British report on a closed down, eg., no longer transmitting, free Black radio-station, their website was still running. But the webmaster said that the station was being targeted by the warring black terrorists groups running amuck in South Africa since the overthrow. The station was bombed and everyone was killed about three weeks later according to a Zimbabwe newspaper report. The website is also down. Fortunately I had downloaded that excellent report.
Since the Black-Africans have taken over South Africa, it is returning to jungle. It is called the 'dark continent' for a reason. Poverty, corruption, murders, (they like to slit throats, get up close and personal, wallowing in the blood and the guts of the victum), rapes, land theft, hangings, of the remaining whites there. African civilization is breaking down, now that the South African Whites are no longer running things.
My next door neighbor, an elegant, well educated, well spoken White South African, escaped from the black overthrow. She was a very good friend of my (CoVid) deceased wife. She says what is transpiring here reminds her of what was happening in South Africa.
The Royal British report that I have, in my opinion, is a deeply researched, unbiased report, detailing how the apartheid movement, the warring Black-Tribal factions and their subsequent overthrow of the White Government unfolded. What I see happening here in America is seemingly following that template.
> I disagree with you this has to lead inexorably to white
> people becoming persecuted as Jews once were..
You could be correct, things don't have to lead inexorably to the extremes that Nazis Germany was guilty of. But things here are following the initial pattern of that eventually monsterous process.
And the persecutions have already started...it is happening now. Whites are being persecuted as I write this, by blacks in US Government, and partially due to the scumbags that the socialist racist Democrat Pr Obama and his racist black thugs he put into positions of power. While in the streets, BLM/blacks and their woke pals are tearing down our statues; changing curriculum in our schools; imposing critical raceism; imposing equity on whites; defaming our cultural ideas as being systemically racist; rewriting American History from their vantage; promoting 'wokism'; corporations are firing people who disagree or who voted for anybody management didn't like; canceling social media accounts of people who are conservatives or disagree; Democrat government is suppressing Christianity; blacks instructing whities how to behave around them. What part of that isn't persecution?? Blacks don't embrace the Jewish either or the Hispanics.
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Post by purr on Apr 27, 2021 5:42:20 GMT
<deletia> I would not paint BLM with the strokes of an overly loosely demonizing brush. Inevitably the movement will include some well meaning and smart people who genuinely strife to further emancipate black people in America. I wish for Blacks to thrive equally to all others and am cheerleader for every step forward, ending slavery, ending segregation and having had Obama as POTUS. The past years of framing police use of force as 'brutality' in the US imho is not such a positive step. I disagree with you this has to lead inexorably to white people becoming persecuted as Jews once were, and some 1 Dem Party system. But it is bad for America, it is bad for America's black community because they are basing police reforms, and the fight against racism on imo unjust treatment of individual police officers, or call them individual persons, and that is the kind of thing that will circle back and bite a society in the but tocks. To be right as a people, you've got to do right by one person. (Repeat many times over.)
purr
Purr, (I apologize re; the length of this reply, and I'll likely not post anything further regarding anything that is happening here in America...I've grown weary of it all),
For starters, outsiders, never have an accurate understanding of the inner workings of someone else's country. One must live there to know of, and understand the intimate details.
>I would not paint BLM with the strokes of an overly loosely demonizing brush.
My first personal contact with BLM, was being shot at by a BLMer with a gun while he was riding in the backseat of a car, covered in printed BLM slogans, following slowly, behind the BLM marchers on a nearby street, and their painting my beautiful redwood fence with their slogans, ruining the decor of my property. BLM is anti-white American racist, destructive, hateful, misbehaving hoodlums. It leaves a BAD taste in me. If it were up to me, any of them, including the 'woke' whites, who commited crimes of looting, burning, beating old people, murdering, painting graffiti on streets and buildings, tearing down statues, I'd cut off their welfare checks and deport them to Africa...kick'm out! Let them go live with their bro's and fix the country of their genetic birth.
>Inevitably the movement will include some well meaning and smart people...
I have not seen anything smart in that group. Or do you mean the 'wokes'? Everyone around here call them the "sleepwalkers", as they are so clueless.
>...who genuinely strive to further emancipate black people in America.
Emancipate blacks from what? Their biggest problem is themselves. We White Americans fought a civil-war to emancipate the slaves a 156 years ago, killing something on the order of 2 million American soldiers, fighting for their emancipation. The blacks were emancipated from the Democrats who owned them, mainly English and Spanairds. Me, a European-American German, my family never partook in any slaving, we did not immigrate to America until after the civil-war. My family and I owe them NOTHING.
We Whities, feed them, pay for their housing, educate them (they tear up, turning their schools into ghetto sh.it-holes along with everything else they are around), we employ them via 'Equal Opportunity' quota hiring in government offices, because they can't get regular employment as everyone else does, and is one of the reasons there are so many blacks in American government, (also is an element of why the US Guv is so dysfunctional), and we provide free hospitalization and medical services. We pay for it all. How's that for reparation?
During the 1994 LA Riots, the blacks looted and burned hundreds of businesses, buildings, schools, cars, --other people's things, but they did not touch the US Post Offices. Why? That is where their Welfare checks were mailed.
The only racism that I've seen in the past 30 years and I have lived and worked in 38 states of the US...eg., all over the country, was that perpetrated by the blacks upon everyone else, including Hispanics.
What more can we do for them, Purr?
Now they want us to ignore them while committing their crimes. Everytime the police are called it is because there is a black committing a crime, and blacks ALLWAYS have a weapon. Rodney King on TV at one time said, "Can't we all just get along?", but what blacks really mean, "Can't y'all just leave us alone while we commit our crimes?"
They are essentially getting their demand, by causing the defunding and disbanding of the police agencies.
Right now as I write this, there are five homeless Hispanics, and four blacks living in cars parked next to my home. I've paid my pricey taxes here for the past 40 years. These people are urinating, and pooping in my yard's bushes outside of my fence while throwing their garbage everywhere and watching my actions through my windows. The city councile recently revoked the ordinance which disallowed that homeless behavior. The police can not legally do anything about it, and now when there are more serious crimes, which are starting to occur in the neighborhood, while everyone is at work, things such as car thefts, burgleries, home invasions, daylight robberies of people exercising in the streets, --the police don't even come out. They are all quitting. The LA City Councile, a Hispanic sanctuary councile, has cut a huge amount of money from the police department and there are not enough police officers remaining in LA, a city of 3 million whites and 25 million illegal/amnesty Hispanic alien-Americans to respond to anything except the highest priority events. Your news over there disclose that little trivia?
Purr, you sound as though you got it good where you live.
America used to be safe, but then we gave blacks the right to own guns. Some more emancipation. There was a time when automobiles had no door or ignition locks. We never locked our house, in El Paso, or Oklahoma, or California. It was safe here in America. But that is no longer true. America is filling up with many immigrant scumbags and the growing misbehaviors of the blacks.
>I wish for Blacks to thrive equally to all others...
I agree. And in a perfect world, it would be wonderful. Truely, few things would be please me more than to see Black-Americans happy and be fully able to be equal.
However, let us be clear...Blacks are free, just like everyone else here in America. There is no reason for the blacks to be emancipated, because they are free. Unfortunately, they just don't think like whites, but they desire equal treatment, while blacks are equal with us in everything that is 'giveable'.
Now, the blacks are imposing 'equity', and what that really means is that they want us to intellectually drop to their level of existence and thinking, then, in theory, they will feel equal with whites. Currently, the blacks are claiming that white teachings in schools is racist, and one of those is mathematics, in high-schools. So they desire that high-schools stop teaching algebra and trigonometry. How are graduates to become employed in our technical civilization without having been taught mathematics?
Statistic surveys reveal that Black students are scholastically behind in every school subject, why? But in any case the BLM are demanding that whites intellectual school studies be lowered to their level, to afford mutual equality..."equity".
You embrace that type equality? If they can't keep up, its their problem not ours and there is nothing that we can give to them, that we haven't already given. So we have to become as uneducatable as they are to enable them to be equal? I am not in lockstep with that type thinking and I suspect you are not either? Putting it another way, would you allow your kids to attend a school where math and literary subjects aren't being taught because a certain class of kids can't keep up with your kids?
That is what is happening right now, here, in America. Don't believe everything you hear or see on Corrupt Negative News, a socialist propaganda station.
>ending slavery, ending segregation and having had Obama as POTUS.
What slavery? And right now, the blacks re-instituting segregation in the college schools, they are segregating the whites, the Chinese and the Hispanics into each of their own class-types from their class type. That is specifically segregation and they are instituting it.
And Pr Obama, did some good things such as breaking the strangle-hold that the oil-companies had in suppressing solar-voltaic technology. I embrace solar energy. He did a few other things also, but he lost my respect when he CENSORED the British Petroleum oil-spill along the Louisiana/Mississippi coast, making it a felony to photograph and-or write anything anywhere in the US in the press or via the InterNet about the clean-up.
And the thing that really torqued my brain, Obama bin ladin, also invited, four black activists affiliated with the United Nations, all four of whom are associated with black African terror groups, to visit and write a report on racial status in the US, which they did. They were granted access to everything except the US prision system. They did not interview any Whites. The 495 page document was presented to Pr Obama. Many of the very negative, socialistic BLM phrases and slogans originated in that highly anti-White biased report.
I have read that racist UN report. It is a socialist diatribe against American Democracy,, in my opinion.
Interestingly, the UN report mirrors elements as reported in a Royal British South African report regarding the colonization, the development and the eventual overthrow of the South African White Government by warring black African terrorist groups, initally led by Mandela. Nobelist. Obama was awarded the Nobel Prize, because he is Black. I found the British report on a closed down, eg., no longer transmitting, free Black radio-station, their website was still running. But the webmaster said that the station was being targeted by the warring black terrorists groups running amuck in South Africa since the overthrow. The station was bombed and everyone was killed about three weeks later according to a Zimbabwe newspaper report. The website is also down. Fortunately I had downloaded that excellent report.
Since the Black-Africans have taken over South Africa, it is returning to jungle. It is called the 'dark continent' for a reason. Poverty, corruption, murders, (they like to slit throats, get up close and personal, wallowing in the blood and the guts of the victum), rapes, land theft, hangings, of the remaining whites there. African civilization is breaking down, now that the South African Whites are no longer running things.
My next door neighbor, an elegant, well educated, well spoken White South African, escaped from the black overthrow. She was a very good friend of my (CoVid) deceased wife. She says what is transpiring here reminds her of what was happening in South Africa.
The Royal British report that I have, in my opinion, is a deeply researched, unbiased report, detailing how the apartheid movement, the warring Black-Tribal factions and their subsequent overthrow of the White Government unfolded. What I see happening here in America is seemingly following that template.
> I disagree with you this has to lead inexorably to white
> people becoming persecuted as Jews once were..
You could be correct, things don't have to lead inexorably to the extremes that Nazis Germany was guilty of. But things here are following the initial pattern of that eventually monsterous process.
And the persecutions have already started...it is happening now. Whites are being persecuted as I write this, by blacks in US Government, and partially due to the scumbags that the socialist racist Democrat Pr Obama and his racist black thugs he put into positions of power. While in the streets, BLM/blacks and their woke pals are tearing down our statues; changing curriculum in our schools; imposing critical raceism; imposing equity on whites; defaming our cultural ideas as being systemically racist; rewriting American History from their vantage; promoting 'wokism'; corporations are firing people who disagree or who voted for anybody management didn't like; canceling social media accounts of people who are conservatives or disagree; Democrat government is suppressing Christianity; blacks instructing whities how to behave around them. What part of that isn't persecution?? Blacks don't embrace the Jewish either or the Hispanics.
Hi Plutronus, first off, I've read your entire post and done so with attention to detail. I don't mind 'long' posts, I'm from pre-Tweet times and firmly believe that reading (and for those so inclined: writing), not just along literary lines but in every style and subject, is at the core of human civilization, at the core of people "emancipating" from whichever oppressed state they wish to escape, and now to simplify some... becoming SOMEBODY.
OK you got me. I do live in a nice place. I've known many of my neighbors for decades, many more in my neighborhood know me and my family, my work and personal interests. This rural town has no gangs, although occasionally individuals and groups travel in to commit a robbery, burglary or try and shoot somebody. Very rarely though, most of the time you could describe our town as 'sleepy'....boring even. Take a walk among our homes here and you will see families enjoying 'Gezelligheid' (=companionship) together through large windows without curtains. During summer many doors and windows are open all day. For many years our police force consisted of one cop on foot, saying hi and making small talk with elderly residents out all hours walking their dogs. In recent years the occasional patrol car has begun passing through, it is almost too much excitement! I suspect you are familiar with similar communities in America.
So yes you in all likelyhood are a much better judge of US big(?) city experience than someone leading a boring life in small town Eastern Netherlands.
I note your experiences with say a BLM'er firing a gun at you, or homeless folk watering/fertilizing the hedge etc. have been quite negative. If it caused you to have a negative response in kind that's not just understandable, it makes sense, you are formulating an experience based adaptive survival strategy for the place you live in. And that's not Kansas.
To debate. I disagree (again) with your reasoning when you take the information gained from negative personal experiences with individual black people and groups, their perceived behavior and traits and (it would seem) too readily extrapolate to the entire ethnic group: "the Blacks". You have not met every "African Black" person who ever lived (I presume) so it is not logical to believe that because you met some or even a lot of wrongdoing black folk THEREFORE black people as a whole tend to be bums or criminally inclined. Even when for a certain duration there's statistical support for such notion, your conclusions regarding 'the Blacks' are frankly in trouble.
You know this well. When one attributes the badness of Bad Apples to All Apples, some upstanding good apples beyond reproach might take offense, complain and have you (or the platform you are posting on) banished as an applist apple hater or a hotbed of same. I'm talking avoidable consequences here.
Also, evolutionary theory has begun to shed some light on races, human variation and how the differences are passed on. In short, there are more differences WITHIN an ethnic group than BETWEEN ethnic groups. When scientists try to measure it, human beings (any race or color) have a lot in common. Yet look within an ethnic group and it becomes clear that individuals are born with a heritable set of discrete physiological and behavioral traits setting the stage for very different life outcomes. Intelligence. Vitality and health. Even Conservatism! All these fateful forces of genetics determine in significant part how WITHIN ANY RACE you have like two Tysons (Mike and Neil DeGrasse ), the almost messianic "I Have A Dream" Martin Luther King and Rodney King of 'can't we all get along' fame, Barack Obama and Bill Cosby, and don't get me started on Denzel Washington (is he married?) not to forget guys shooting guns under a BLM banner and the homeless black people killing off your garden plants. White folk have the same variance, from sociopath to nutter, from genius and hero and saint to bum and criminal hardcase. Surely Hispanics too. Italians. Inca descendants. European German Americans. Fresians from Northern Netherlands. SAME DIFFERENCE.
Plutro, this imho is the great and wonderful secret of 'race'. Each ethnicity, every generation, has its percentage of extraordinary, wonderful, world changing people. That's why it is ultimately unfair to link the bad seeds of a race with all of that race. Baddies (white, black, purple whatever) have almost nothing in common with the good and exceptional people of that same race (who understandably resent being associated with scum). Bad guys and galls do have most in common with bad, criminal, destructive people from any other race. I find your analysis of Black on White racism intriguing. I can't judge it from an ocean away in peaceful Netherlands. But maybe I recognize what you describe in the treatment of police officers charged in a string of so called brutality cases. Isn't the emphasis on a "white" police officer using excessive force on a black suspect/detainee, coupled with threats to riot/against juror safety unless the 'right' verdict was reached, disseminated in MSM and Social Media, just such an example of undue influencing the public, the courts and in Chauvin's case contaminating the jury? purr
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Post by SysConfig on Apr 27, 2021 22:55:23 GMT
Chauvin will get a new trial on appeal..and then let go simply by a change of venue..he should have gotten to begin with..thats the way this was ordained and will end.....I dont care about the knee..I care about his very very cold face that I have seen on hitmen and serial killers whilst workin in Jail....Chauvi (may I call him Chauvi?) worked head of security at the Club since 2007..he had to have hired Floyd for some reason..A simple background check would have revealed his violent nature and arrests (not to mention his drug issues) Yet he hired him.worked over a year with Floyd. What went wrong, the Club owner was a somalian who owned one or more housing projects..filled with refugees he helped in,was arrested by FBI ..then released. Chauvi deploys as Security head after release. Hires other local cops to hustle part time...everything was going lovely with the Mayor and Female Manager (hot) taking pictures together.. Most folx , like myself, are keenly aware of the Drug Trafficking, counterfeiting distribution , etc going on in Clubs..a hub where buyers, sellers, and couriers or mules meet..This Club, near a low income housing you just happen to own, would have been ideal..with friendly po-pos working and protecting the VIPs..like the Bands arriving straight from Mexico..that played there... It must have been pure heaven...until...maybe...someone broke into the stash..someone like floyd..and when Chauvi got the call about a drugee passing out phony bills...bingo..he would personally take care of this himself..family business as it were.
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