Post by swamprat on Aug 25, 2019 0:58:59 GMT
Dr. Kit Green, On the Record
By Richard Dolan
August 24, 2019
Christopher "Kit" Green, M. D., Ph.D., FAAFS served in the CIA from 1969 to 1985. He left the service to pursue his medical career as Assistant Dean of Clinical Research, for the Wayne State School of Medicine in Detroit, Michigan, and eventually private practice. In the early 1970s, Dr. Green participated in the forming of a 20-year government research project into ESP and psychic abilities.
Intro: The Wilson Document Leak
In early June 2019, two very interesting and controversial documents were leaked to the UFO community which have caused some commotion. I don’t think this commotion is going to stop any time soon.
I have already spoken and written at some length regarding one of these documents – called by some the “Core Secrets Document” and more often what I simply call the Wilson Document, or Wilson Memo. In my view, this 15-page document ranks as the ufological leak of the century so far. It’s an extended close transcription written by Dr. Eric Davis of the National Institute of Discovery Science (NIDS) in October 2002, and concerns a conversation he had with Vice Admiral Thomas R. Wilson (ret.) at an undisclosed location regarding Wilson’s knowledge of a deeply classified program to reverse engineer non-human (alien) technology while Wilson served as Deputy Chief of Intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1997.
Just as significantly, the notes described Wilson’s distress over being denied access to this program once he learned about it, despite his assumption that through his position he had legal oversight over this program. The team that denied him access were private employees of the contracting firm, not U.S. government personnel, although they had the backing ultimately of the Director of Special Projects for the Office for the Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition and Technology (OUSDAT). This is where apparently much (if not most or all) of U.S. special access programs (SAP) are contained within the bureaucracy of the Department of Defense. Even so, it appeared to Wilson that the entire program was dominated by the contracting firm, and U.S. government personnel seemed mostly irrelevant, as far as he could tell.
Most UFO researchers who have studied this memo can easily see that it is authentic. The information contained within is fully amenable to examination, and increasingly we are seeing researchers delving into the minutia of what it contains to find that the information checks out.
Even the “no comments” about the document are noteworthy. Although neither Davis nor any of his colleagues have elected to authenticate the Wilson Document (it is after all an extremely delicate matter for them professionally), the “no comments” are practically offered as explanations, almost as apologies. Dr. Hal Puthoff, who for many years has been closely associated with Davis, graciously wrote this to me on June 12:
“With regard to authenticity, we have no comment on the documents recently being circulated. As some of us still retain USG security clearances and remain bound by the secrecy oaths we have taken, we believe it is in the best interest of the USG and ourselves not to comment on any documents that purport to describe classified USG programs or information.”
For myself, I’ve never had a doubt about the document. As I have said from the beginning – indeed from long before this all came out – I was shown two of the pages of this document back in 2006. I never forgot the statement by Wilson that this was technology “not made by man, not by human hands.”
I’ve also discussed the matter a number of times over the years (something covered very well in a piece by Guiliano Marinkovic). It turns out that I wasn’t the only one to talk about the contents of those notes. Former astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell did, as did UFO researcher Dr. Steven Greer and several others.
It quickly became apparent that the leak of this document occurred as a result of the death of Edgar Mitchell in 2017. I don’t know the full story of how some of his documents got into other hands, but I did interview James Rigney of Australia about this. James is second-in-line to the source of the documents. He knows who has them and is keeping that person’s identity private. I have been made to understand, however, that the acquisition of these papers occurred legally and above-board. I was also made to understand that this was a private initiative, not something orchestrated by any intelligence community. In other words, it wasn’t an ‘op.’
There has been much more to say about all this, by myself and other researchers, so we can leave the Wilson Memo at that for now. A few die-hard skeptics maintain it’s all a hoax. Let them howl into the wind. The world is moving on.
The Alien Autopsy Email Leak
But the main subject of this article isn’t the Wilson Memo, fascinating though that is. Rather, it’s the other major document to leak from the papers of Edgar Mitchell. (There is a third leak, which was publicized by researcher Grant Cameron on his Facebook page, of a 1996 letter by NIDS founder Robert Bigelow to Mitchell, in advance of a NIDS board meeting).
This other leak is a series of exchanges from early 2001 and totals eleven pages. The main subject of this exchange concerns the infamous “alien autopsy” film of 1995 by Ray Santilli. This leak actually made it out to the world just before the Wilson Memo and was quickly overshadowed by it. But it’s interesting, for sure. I wrote about it almost immediately.
For those who need catching up, the Santilli film was featured on Fox television in 1995 and became an international sensation. Within a short period of time, the consensus of most UFO researchers was that it was a hoax. But in early 2001, a group of distinguished scientists associated with NIDS were discussing the Santilli film among themselves, quietly, not for outside discussion. Now, it’s interesting that even this late (2001) there was a genuine discussion among these individuals about the possible reality of the film.
It’s even more interesting that the person who was being asked to provide his professional opinion, Dr. Christopher (Kit) Green, stated point-blank in the emails that the alien being in the video was “real” and not human. Kit Green was a CIA intelligence officer, and one of the most qualified medical professionals you will find anywhere. His areas of expertise in connection with the biological sciences are broad and deep. He also has had a longstanding interest in and connection to the UFO subject in various ways over a distinguished career. So when you read that statement in the emails, it’s something that can give most people at least some pause.
But all of the above can ultimately be chalked off to just someone’s opinion, no matter how educated or intelligent that person may be. What got my attention was something else that came up in the emails: that Green had several briefings on the subject of UFOs, and on one occasion (described as taking place in “1987/88”), he was shown alien autopsy reports and still images. In the email, he stated that the images he was shown in his briefing were “consistent” with the being depicted in the Santilli film. Elsewhere in the email exchange, he went so far as to say it was the same being.
Obviously, that complicates matters a bit. None of this proves that the Santilli film or the alien being depicted in it is “real.” But if Kit Green was indeed shown images that were consistent with what Ray Santilli created seven or eight years later, then we have an interesting situation. We might ask, if it’s a fake, was Santilli or his associates working with the intelligence community somehow? Or is there some level of reality to what’s depicted in that film after all?
Contacting Kit Green
Immediately, I wrote to Kit Green. I would describe our relationship up to that point as cordial but not close. We had spoken to each other from time to time over the years. He’s always worth listening to. My exchange with him is listed in the article I wrote on June 6.
Long story short, he told me that (a) he does not believe the being in the Santilli film is an alien and hasn’t believed that for a long time, and (b) that he believes he was hoaxed by the Pentagon in that briefing from the 1980s.
While I wasn’t inclined to debate Kit Green, his explanation struck me as weak, and I said so. Part of this article provides his more detailed explanation.
Meanwhile, there are individuals connected to ufology who treat these questions the way theologians treat heresy. Some have gone so far as to say the email thread itself is fake, which you would think to be a laughably embarrassing position to take, except that these people don’t seem to be embarrassed. Other critics, like Philip Mantle, are more substantive. Mantle has done a great deal of writing about the Santilli film, and has laid out the case that it is fake from beginning to end. He has contended that since the whole film was made up by Santilli and his partner Spyros Melaris in 1995, Green could not possibly have seen what he claimed to have seen. Philip told me this early on in a private email.
Fine, but I was more interested in what Kit Green had to say. Kit and I arranged for an interview in mid-July, just before I did some extended travel. It seems he and I both had a misconception about what would happen. He believed we were having a preliminary interview only, after which we would do our formal, proper one. I had the idea, especially since our conversation was so engaging, that this was the one interview, and moreover that I would be permitted to release a transcript. In fact, much of what he said turned out to be off the record, so we worked it out. The result is this article, which discusses everything he wanted on the record, which turns out to be most of what we discussed anyway.
I should add here that although I gave him the chance to correct any errors of fact or misunderstanding, Kit insisted he would not request any final editing for substantive changes whatsoever. And he did not.
Confirming Authenticity
My first question had to do with the authenticity of the email leak.
RD: Actually the question I want to ask is [about] the eleven-page email that I sent you, which is the one that has been leaked. It’s dated March 21, 2001. Do you consider that to be a genuine email? Is that something that rings a bell with you? Is that authentic?
KG: Absolutely, it’s authentic. I can say that while I never actually saw that specific email, I saw the one that Eric [Davis] was describing as being the one he was modifying.
RD: This was the one from February.
KG: Correct. He probably also sent me that one [RD note, meaning the email from March 21, 2001]. The only thing I can tell you is, as far as what I am reported, what I am stated to have said, is one hundred percent true, and what is there as a cut and paste from a series of my emails, I remember completely as being email [unclear] of what I said.
This should settle any continuing discussion on at least this aspect of the matter. The email is authentic and yes, there was obviously cutting and pasting, presumably after the fact by Davis or Mitchell.
The Pentagon Briefing
Now on to matters of substance within the 2001 email thread itself. Within it, Kit Green is quoted as saying (Davis’s words but accurate according to Green):
“The Alien Autopsy film/video is real, the alien cadaver is real, and the cadaver seen in the film/video is the same as the photos Kit saw at the Pentagon during briefing #2 [1987/1988].”
And again in the emails, this time in response to a question by NIDS scientist Dr. Colm Kelleher:
Colm:
(2) Can you relate the Santilli videotake in detail to the autopsy reports that you viewed (via your briefings and reports) as being the same or similar creature?
Kit:
SAME
And finally this exchange between Davis and Green:
From Eric –
… did you come to a final conclusion or opinion on whether or not the body was fake or real? You say below “the video is real”, so is that your indirect answer to this question …?
Kit:
ASKED AND ANSWERED. WHAT CAN BE MORE DIRECT THAN ‘THE VIDEO IS REAL’ …
Incidentally, I asked Kit Green if he could pin down the date of that briefing. His answer remains no, although he has it in his archives. “I’ve not gone back and looked at them to try to pin down whether it was 87 or 88.”
In any case, that’s the fundamental background. Readers are encouraged to read through the complete exchange at length.
But Green’s perspective today is not the same as it was in 2001. Green now openly states his earlier assessment of the Santilli creature was wrong. “I assumed it was alien,” he said, “because earlier, I had been warranted [for thinking] in a briefing with a uniformed officer in the Pentagon that it was an alien.” He later “found out that was untrue. . . . I was totally positive it was an alien body then, twenty years ago, but I am positive now that it was not.”
By Richard Dolan
August 24, 2019
Christopher "Kit" Green, M. D., Ph.D., FAAFS served in the CIA from 1969 to 1985. He left the service to pursue his medical career as Assistant Dean of Clinical Research, for the Wayne State School of Medicine in Detroit, Michigan, and eventually private practice. In the early 1970s, Dr. Green participated in the forming of a 20-year government research project into ESP and psychic abilities.
Intro: The Wilson Document Leak
In early June 2019, two very interesting and controversial documents were leaked to the UFO community which have caused some commotion. I don’t think this commotion is going to stop any time soon.
I have already spoken and written at some length regarding one of these documents – called by some the “Core Secrets Document” and more often what I simply call the Wilson Document, or Wilson Memo. In my view, this 15-page document ranks as the ufological leak of the century so far. It’s an extended close transcription written by Dr. Eric Davis of the National Institute of Discovery Science (NIDS) in October 2002, and concerns a conversation he had with Vice Admiral Thomas R. Wilson (ret.) at an undisclosed location regarding Wilson’s knowledge of a deeply classified program to reverse engineer non-human (alien) technology while Wilson served as Deputy Chief of Intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1997.
Just as significantly, the notes described Wilson’s distress over being denied access to this program once he learned about it, despite his assumption that through his position he had legal oversight over this program. The team that denied him access were private employees of the contracting firm, not U.S. government personnel, although they had the backing ultimately of the Director of Special Projects for the Office for the Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition and Technology (OUSDAT). This is where apparently much (if not most or all) of U.S. special access programs (SAP) are contained within the bureaucracy of the Department of Defense. Even so, it appeared to Wilson that the entire program was dominated by the contracting firm, and U.S. government personnel seemed mostly irrelevant, as far as he could tell.
Most UFO researchers who have studied this memo can easily see that it is authentic. The information contained within is fully amenable to examination, and increasingly we are seeing researchers delving into the minutia of what it contains to find that the information checks out.
Even the “no comments” about the document are noteworthy. Although neither Davis nor any of his colleagues have elected to authenticate the Wilson Document (it is after all an extremely delicate matter for them professionally), the “no comments” are practically offered as explanations, almost as apologies. Dr. Hal Puthoff, who for many years has been closely associated with Davis, graciously wrote this to me on June 12:
“With regard to authenticity, we have no comment on the documents recently being circulated. As some of us still retain USG security clearances and remain bound by the secrecy oaths we have taken, we believe it is in the best interest of the USG and ourselves not to comment on any documents that purport to describe classified USG programs or information.”
For myself, I’ve never had a doubt about the document. As I have said from the beginning – indeed from long before this all came out – I was shown two of the pages of this document back in 2006. I never forgot the statement by Wilson that this was technology “not made by man, not by human hands.”
I’ve also discussed the matter a number of times over the years (something covered very well in a piece by Guiliano Marinkovic). It turns out that I wasn’t the only one to talk about the contents of those notes. Former astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell did, as did UFO researcher Dr. Steven Greer and several others.
It quickly became apparent that the leak of this document occurred as a result of the death of Edgar Mitchell in 2017. I don’t know the full story of how some of his documents got into other hands, but I did interview James Rigney of Australia about this. James is second-in-line to the source of the documents. He knows who has them and is keeping that person’s identity private. I have been made to understand, however, that the acquisition of these papers occurred legally and above-board. I was also made to understand that this was a private initiative, not something orchestrated by any intelligence community. In other words, it wasn’t an ‘op.’
There has been much more to say about all this, by myself and other researchers, so we can leave the Wilson Memo at that for now. A few die-hard skeptics maintain it’s all a hoax. Let them howl into the wind. The world is moving on.
The Alien Autopsy Email Leak
But the main subject of this article isn’t the Wilson Memo, fascinating though that is. Rather, it’s the other major document to leak from the papers of Edgar Mitchell. (There is a third leak, which was publicized by researcher Grant Cameron on his Facebook page, of a 1996 letter by NIDS founder Robert Bigelow to Mitchell, in advance of a NIDS board meeting).
This other leak is a series of exchanges from early 2001 and totals eleven pages. The main subject of this exchange concerns the infamous “alien autopsy” film of 1995 by Ray Santilli. This leak actually made it out to the world just before the Wilson Memo and was quickly overshadowed by it. But it’s interesting, for sure. I wrote about it almost immediately.
For those who need catching up, the Santilli film was featured on Fox television in 1995 and became an international sensation. Within a short period of time, the consensus of most UFO researchers was that it was a hoax. But in early 2001, a group of distinguished scientists associated with NIDS were discussing the Santilli film among themselves, quietly, not for outside discussion. Now, it’s interesting that even this late (2001) there was a genuine discussion among these individuals about the possible reality of the film.
It’s even more interesting that the person who was being asked to provide his professional opinion, Dr. Christopher (Kit) Green, stated point-blank in the emails that the alien being in the video was “real” and not human. Kit Green was a CIA intelligence officer, and one of the most qualified medical professionals you will find anywhere. His areas of expertise in connection with the biological sciences are broad and deep. He also has had a longstanding interest in and connection to the UFO subject in various ways over a distinguished career. So when you read that statement in the emails, it’s something that can give most people at least some pause.
But all of the above can ultimately be chalked off to just someone’s opinion, no matter how educated or intelligent that person may be. What got my attention was something else that came up in the emails: that Green had several briefings on the subject of UFOs, and on one occasion (described as taking place in “1987/88”), he was shown alien autopsy reports and still images. In the email, he stated that the images he was shown in his briefing were “consistent” with the being depicted in the Santilli film. Elsewhere in the email exchange, he went so far as to say it was the same being.
Obviously, that complicates matters a bit. None of this proves that the Santilli film or the alien being depicted in it is “real.” But if Kit Green was indeed shown images that were consistent with what Ray Santilli created seven or eight years later, then we have an interesting situation. We might ask, if it’s a fake, was Santilli or his associates working with the intelligence community somehow? Or is there some level of reality to what’s depicted in that film after all?
Contacting Kit Green
Immediately, I wrote to Kit Green. I would describe our relationship up to that point as cordial but not close. We had spoken to each other from time to time over the years. He’s always worth listening to. My exchange with him is listed in the article I wrote on June 6.
Long story short, he told me that (a) he does not believe the being in the Santilli film is an alien and hasn’t believed that for a long time, and (b) that he believes he was hoaxed by the Pentagon in that briefing from the 1980s.
While I wasn’t inclined to debate Kit Green, his explanation struck me as weak, and I said so. Part of this article provides his more detailed explanation.
Meanwhile, there are individuals connected to ufology who treat these questions the way theologians treat heresy. Some have gone so far as to say the email thread itself is fake, which you would think to be a laughably embarrassing position to take, except that these people don’t seem to be embarrassed. Other critics, like Philip Mantle, are more substantive. Mantle has done a great deal of writing about the Santilli film, and has laid out the case that it is fake from beginning to end. He has contended that since the whole film was made up by Santilli and his partner Spyros Melaris in 1995, Green could not possibly have seen what he claimed to have seen. Philip told me this early on in a private email.
Fine, but I was more interested in what Kit Green had to say. Kit and I arranged for an interview in mid-July, just before I did some extended travel. It seems he and I both had a misconception about what would happen. He believed we were having a preliminary interview only, after which we would do our formal, proper one. I had the idea, especially since our conversation was so engaging, that this was the one interview, and moreover that I would be permitted to release a transcript. In fact, much of what he said turned out to be off the record, so we worked it out. The result is this article, which discusses everything he wanted on the record, which turns out to be most of what we discussed anyway.
I should add here that although I gave him the chance to correct any errors of fact or misunderstanding, Kit insisted he would not request any final editing for substantive changes whatsoever. And he did not.
Confirming Authenticity
My first question had to do with the authenticity of the email leak.
RD: Actually the question I want to ask is [about] the eleven-page email that I sent you, which is the one that has been leaked. It’s dated March 21, 2001. Do you consider that to be a genuine email? Is that something that rings a bell with you? Is that authentic?
KG: Absolutely, it’s authentic. I can say that while I never actually saw that specific email, I saw the one that Eric [Davis] was describing as being the one he was modifying.
RD: This was the one from February.
KG: Correct. He probably also sent me that one [RD note, meaning the email from March 21, 2001]. The only thing I can tell you is, as far as what I am reported, what I am stated to have said, is one hundred percent true, and what is there as a cut and paste from a series of my emails, I remember completely as being email [unclear] of what I said.
This should settle any continuing discussion on at least this aspect of the matter. The email is authentic and yes, there was obviously cutting and pasting, presumably after the fact by Davis or Mitchell.
The Pentagon Briefing
Now on to matters of substance within the 2001 email thread itself. Within it, Kit Green is quoted as saying (Davis’s words but accurate according to Green):
“The Alien Autopsy film/video is real, the alien cadaver is real, and the cadaver seen in the film/video is the same as the photos Kit saw at the Pentagon during briefing #2 [1987/1988].”
And again in the emails, this time in response to a question by NIDS scientist Dr. Colm Kelleher:
Colm:
(2) Can you relate the Santilli videotake in detail to the autopsy reports that you viewed (via your briefings and reports) as being the same or similar creature?
Kit:
SAME
And finally this exchange between Davis and Green:
From Eric –
… did you come to a final conclusion or opinion on whether or not the body was fake or real? You say below “the video is real”, so is that your indirect answer to this question …?
Kit:
ASKED AND ANSWERED. WHAT CAN BE MORE DIRECT THAN ‘THE VIDEO IS REAL’ …
Incidentally, I asked Kit Green if he could pin down the date of that briefing. His answer remains no, although he has it in his archives. “I’ve not gone back and looked at them to try to pin down whether it was 87 or 88.”
In any case, that’s the fundamental background. Readers are encouraged to read through the complete exchange at length.
But Green’s perspective today is not the same as it was in 2001. Green now openly states his earlier assessment of the Santilli creature was wrong. “I assumed it was alien,” he said, “because earlier, I had been warranted [for thinking] in a briefing with a uniformed officer in the Pentagon that it was an alien.” He later “found out that was untrue. . . . I was totally positive it was an alien body then, twenty years ago, but I am positive now that it was not.”
See next post for page 2