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Post by swamprat on Nov 30, 2019 20:18:26 GMT
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Post by swamprat on Dec 1, 2019 1:52:17 GMT
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Post by purr on Dec 15, 2019 18:33:03 GMT
Houston, we have a problem! (Abductees turn out not to be delusional after all.)
Ditto! And thanks Swamp for the link, nice summation of Mack's work and unique contribution to UFOlogy.
I remember from his books he found the incidence of mental disorders among abductees/so called 'Experiencers' slightly lower than within the average population. He really could tell of course, his claim carrying the weight of a Harvard Prof of Psychiatry.
And therein lies his appeal to any reasonable mind considering his investigations into the Abduction phenomenon. If these folk AREN'T nuts, then why are they, that entire class of Zimbabwean kids at the Ariel School included, reporting these encounters in significant numbers? Mack's ultimate answer, carefully stated within his area of expertise, was that abductees were reporting experiences that were "psychologically real".
As real as anyone reading these words. As real as the room, place whichever environment, company you find yourself in right now. Logically it follows Abduction is real too (as a part of 'reality') and this opens to the possibility mankind is indeed personally interacting with extremely weird Others. Perhaps space aliens, or folks hailing from parts truly unknown like another Dimension.
Professor Mack took UFOs, Aliens and Abduction out of the fringes of public perception and back to being appreciated as one of the greatest mysteries Mankind must solve: who are we sharing our universe with...
purr
Encounters and interaction with extremely weird others.
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Post by plutronus on Jan 25, 2020 11:44:42 GMT
About a year before Dr. Mack was killed in the UK when he stepped off a curb and was hit by a car, I was invited to attend a fund raising event for John Mack. The fund-raiser was hosted by a friend of mine in their large mansion over looking Malibu Beach up on the cliffs. The event was attended mainly by movie stars and other wealthy dignitaries. As a point of trivia, in Dr. John Mack's personal group was a special envoy sent by the Vatican, and Pamela Stonebrook (frequently attended my 11:11 parties). She was their special guest. Pamela Stonebrook as you may remember claimed to be having a sexual relationship with a Reptilian.
The Reptilians are the aliens who drive the **BIG** black ET military triangles that are being reported. Those 'triangles' should not to be confused with the small Earthian Military ARV triangles.
plutronus
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Post by thelmadonna on Jan 25, 2020 15:37:54 GMT
What facts do you know of these craft?
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drwu
Full Member
Posts: 209
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Post by drwu on Jan 25, 2020 18:24:15 GMT
Just as a point of interest....Dr Mack wasn't convinced that people were literally being abducted by 'aliens'. He talks about this in his two books. He postulated that it's possible that some of these events were 'spiritual' in nature or even dimensional. I don't think he would have liked becoming a poster boy for alien abductions since he was somewhat ambivalent about the true nature of the events. Of course that's my take on his comments in his books and others might see it a different way.
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Post by nyx on Jan 25, 2020 19:45:23 GMT
Alien abduction is just like alien sightings which is like sinking into a lake of mud and no help coming to help.
In fact alien abduction is even more bizarre and less provable than UFO sightings.
Now having said that, my alien abduction at a young age (they are no looking for old people) was very real and terrifying in the fact that I had no control over my body.
Do I have proof, no!
But I do know it was not a dream or sleep paralysis.
Does anyone one else here feel their abduction was real?
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Post by plutronus on Jan 26, 2020 18:58:55 GMT
Just as a point of interest....Dr Mack wasn't convinced that people were literally being abducted by 'aliens'. He talks about this in his two books. He postulated that it's possible that some of these events were 'spiritual' in nature or even dimensional. I don't think he would have liked becoming a poster boy for alien abductions since he was somewhat ambivalent about the true nature of the events. Of course that's my take on his comments in his books and others might see it a different way. That may well have been true when he wrote the books, however, when I watched Dr. Mack lecture, addressing the audience and later, as I chatted with him directly, he seemed to connote a different message in my opinion. However, psychologists who are not edified regarding Yetzirah or Astral plane consciousness, may see things in an inadequate convoluted manner. It is my opinion that Dr. Boulay also exhibited that state of lack of awareness about the matter. Put another way, its bit like hearing a quantum physicist describing their understanding of bi-location or a hardware engineer disclaiming non-latency information transfer...yet those things exist.
Then the problem with books, is that the moment they are printed, they become 'obsolete' in that the book doesn't reflect fluctuations of the author's mind and print as yet can't be easily changed once its on the paper.
I expended around three hours hob-nobbing with Dr. Mack and his entourage, as I was already freindly with Pamela Stonebrook through association with her during my parties. Don't misunderstand me, I was never 'good' friends with her, beyond casual contact, but we did chat regarding her relationship with her Reptilian lover and how she became introduced to the Reptilian.
The point of my mentioning the 'Vatican envoy', is that the Church sees Reptilians, albeit, from a different vantage than I, however, we, meaning the Church and I (although I am not a Christian zealot, nor do I ascribe to the Catholic belief) essentially see Reptilians as being the Dalet Beyt Lamed (Hbr = Latin = 'Devil'). The Church sees and promotes that the Devil is a fallen Angel, while the Qabalah describes that Angel as being "Uriel" one of the named Angels and is not a fallen Angel. A major difference between Church doctrine and Hebrew Mystical doctrine, the QBLA dictates that the Angels are the gate keepers of the passage ways up through the One Tree-Of-Life that is fractally connected all through-out conscious existence of Yod Heh Vav Heh's Mind (Hbr = Latin = 'Jehova' = 'God'). According to QBLA, consciousness everywhere are all reflections of that One Mind, while some are evolving back into the perfect reflection, most are imperfect or are 'dirty reflections'.
All of the Angels in ancient times were depicted as being Dragons, but have through the dim passage of time have pictorially evolved into pretty androgenous white feathered winged Human like individuals. Whereas Dragons...eg., Reptilians, 12 to 15 ft/4 ~ 5m tall, are sheathed in a red scaly snake like hide, bi-pedal (standing upright on two legs), long arms, terminated with three long fingers and an opposed thumb, having blood red aqueous humor eyes with orange-red goat like pupil slit, which appeared similarly to Tyranosaurus Rex like dinosaurs, while the warrior caste, sport short leathery bat-like wings that fold up on the back when not in use, all have a short muscular tail and with a very toothy grin. Reptilians are highly telepathic, and can emit a telepathic stun pulse from their foreheads, so much so that they can stun their prey prior to eating them.
In ancient drawings, sculptures and paintings created throughout Humankind's history, depict dragons and gargoyls (baby dragons), often depicted or sculptures cast as gnawing on Humans. Both forms of which are seen by academics as being, at best, as mythological beings of the ancients, while functional psychics are aware of as mystical individuals that exist in the spiritual domain or planes. This specis apparently existed in the physical plane in the distant past, or, there was some type of Human/Reptilian significant state of existence transition that occurred, details of which Humanity has long forgotten and who's physical existence it seems, has been systematically hidden from our perception. Apparently, when Reptilians weren't working us to death, their males fornicated with our females and when they weren't over working or fucking us, they found us delectible, eating us. A glimpse of that, can be found in the Old Testament, noted as being the Passover. We were the ubicquitous Human slaves. The exact details of the Human/Reptilian history is a puzzle that thwarts my best efforts to penetrate aside from a few simple glimpses.
Other investigators are aware of this matter, one, Dr. Rene A. Boulay (deceased), author of, "Flying Serpents and Dragons -- The Story of Mankind's Reptilian Past". Should anyone care to acquire and read this scholarly treatis, -- I recommend the second edition: ISBN 1-885395-38-8. However, the first edition is available on the BiblioTecaPleyades website, although that version has been annotated with comments and opinions by a reader/scanner of the text, which I found rather annoying:
The latter edition, I have not been able to find on the web, although I do have a soft cover copy of the revisied edition.
Author Description:
"Rene Andrew Boulay graduated from George Washington University in 1950 where he did his graduate work in history. He joined the National Security Agency as a cryptologist and intelligence reporter wher he worked in various analytical activities. Dr. Boulay also taught at the National Cryptologic School. The study of ancient history has always been his avocation and upon retiring from government service in 1979, has devoted his energies to solving the puzzles and mysteries of history. The culmination of over ten years of research was the publication of "Flying Serpents and Dragons" in 1990." This was the first Edition.
As I understand things, the Reptilians created Humans, and that the archetypes are programmed into our DNA, Reptilian, using technology our biologists have as yet to discover. The Reptilians own Earth, and they allow us to do anything we please, as long as we do not interfere with 'production' or escape enmass, eg., interfere with their agenda. Exactly what I mean by that is a complicated matter.
How I have come to this assertion was through a twisty and complicated process and experience involving my invitatinal alien contact with at least three different specis of aliens; my training and the opinion of the person who saved my ass when things went bad because the Reptilians realized that I was able to see their hidden activity, and then, now that the vapors have lifted allowing my brain's vision to be clearer, military RVer impositional influence.
The difference between myself and many other alien experiencers is that I already have/had significant understanding of the Yetzirah plane of consciousness, having been trained in astral activities through the AMORC Rosicrucian Order, ascension school curricula since age 4. As a side note, members of my family have been students of this school, as well as the other not so well known ascension schools for centuries.
A bit of my point being, is when the Grey abductions began, that while I was initially 'asleep', I 'awakened' during one of the abductions. After that I was fully awake during that period, although, I was unable to break free of the application of their psionic technology, contrary, to some taught opinion that simply repeating Christian mantras or "refusing to accept" the process would thwart the Grey imposition. Anyone who believes that has not been awake during an authentic abduction.
I'll have to finish this another time, as a household chore has become evident...which I must attend...later.
plutronus
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drwu
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Post by drwu on Jan 28, 2020 19:24:34 GMT
Thanks for the interesting reply. I'm sure Dr Mack probably had a complicated take on the whole abduction matter and probably did change his point of view over time. Sadly he died and was not able to continue his investigation into the so-called alien abduction phenomenon. Regarding your comments on Reptilians, The Bible, aliens, humankind, etc, I have to say I am not a believer in that line of esoteric thinking. I do try to keep an open mind but to me most of these things come down to 'myth' with very little to support any of the claims as far as I can tell. I have read a number of books over the last 40 years....both ufo related and occult /metaphysical in nature ,and while I find them interesting and even fascinating at times, they seem to have no actual support in a factual basis...at least none that I have ever come across. Perhaps I am not looking in the right places. I will take a look at that link to Dr Boulay...as I enjoy reading unusual material. If you have a book that encapsulates your main ideas on Reptilians and the human race please tell me as I would enjoy checking it out.
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Post by plutronus on Jan 29, 2020 8:19:38 GMT
Thanks for the interesting reply. I'm sure Dr Mack probably had a complicated take on the whole abduction matter and probably did change his point of view over time. Sadly he died and was not able to continue his investigation into the so-called alien abduction phenomenon. Regarding your comments on Reptilians, The Bible, aliens, humankind, etc, I have to say I am not a believer in that line of esoteric thinking. I do try to keep an open mind but to me most of these things come down to 'myth' with very little to support any of the claims as far as I can tell. I have read a number of books over the last 40 years....both ufo related and occult /metaphysical in nature ,and while I find them interesting and even fascinating at times, they seem to have no actual support in a factual basis...at least none that I have ever come across. Perhaps I am not looking in the right places. I will take a look at that link to Dr Boulay...as I enjoy reading unusual material. If you have a book that encapsulates your main ideas on Reptilians and the human race please tell me as I would enjoy checking it out. DrWu,
It is rewarding that there are people who actually read my posts. Thank you.
Not intending to demean Dr. John Mack in any sense, however, from the perspective of the public view, Dr. Mack was the only academic psychologist interested in any aspect of the alien presence problem and so, much of what people believe, simply through inference, what that the psychology world thinks about alien presence is rather slanted. Due to effectiveness of intelligence promoted disinformation processes since the Project Blue-Book era many interested academics study the subjects covertly, associating only with other secretly studying associates. Of these 'secret' study associations there is the so-called 'invisible-college', a group of hidden from public view, academics who secretly study ET subjects. From that perspective, there are numerous psychology academics who are proponents of and are participating in the study of near earth ET presence sociology. Many of these academics not only suspect that Earth is undergoing varying forms of alien contact, but also believe that these processes have been ongoing for possibly centuries, which scientifically implies, through scientific experience, that ET have been here much too long to simply be studying us. It is likely that there is some other as yet, seemingly, unknown agenda being orchestrated.
Here are a few of these invisible-college psychologists, Drs Dean Radin, Jessica Utts, Beverly Rubiak, Russle Targ, Allen Tough, Albert Harrison, etc. Most if not all, are prolific paper writers, also, lecturers and are/were members of the Society for Scientific Exploration and the attendent published academic peer reviewed journal, JSE. Several of these academics either currently work, or have worked in the past, for billionaires Rockefeller, Paul Allen (via Intraval) and Robert Bigelow, all specifically doing ET science. Dr. Allen Tough, (deceased), was an associate and a member of my SETV group. Allen told me when I asked him why he was searching for ET, as he had not directly experienced ET contact, said, "I see lots of smoke, but I can't find the fire. I know that ET is here." And that, pretty much sums the matter for almost everyone as probably for you as well.
If ET is here, then, 'Where is the smoking gun evidence?', everyone asks.
Unfortunately I do not. The information I shared is an integration of peices of information I gleaned from a large body of mish-mashed information sources while the main theme is essentially my own speculation. A number of my friends and associations have been cajoling me to write a book, but I am a bit reticent to do so, I mean, do we really need yet another experiencer book replete with yet more unprovable non-factual information? While my story is unique, so are also most other experiencer journeys.
Although a number of folks have upon hearing elements of my studies and experiences, have repeatedly stated that I must have read Zacharia Sitchin's books. However, it is true that I did see the full collection of Sitchin's books on a freind's book shelf a few years ago, however, that is the closest I have come to those books. I have never opened or reviewed any of Zacharia Sitchin's books. So, maybe those books might provide some similar information?
The integration of the Mystical Qabalah, Hebrew and Reptilian information, is that of my own studies of Sinatic Hebrew, of the Sefer Yetzirah, collection of ET information on the InterNet, having read dozens of old UFO books, and information presented in Rosicrucian curricula. The Rosicrucian information is claimed to have originated through ancient Egypt and off world, in addition with my own psychic contacts, that of my mother's, and telepathic contact with certain ET specis and then my psychic observation of Reptilian craft activities in the upper planes.
Best Regards
plutronus
A few good ET subject books: 'Unconventional Flying Objects, a scientific analysis", Paul Hill, NASA propulsion physicist, "Project Identification - the first scientific field study of UFOs", Harley Rutledge, Dept Chair of Physics, UoM.edu, "Flying Saucers - Serious Business", Frank Edwards, 1800s ~ 1950s long time print news journalist and radio news journalist, interested in flying saucers,
"Best UFO Cases - Europe", Illobrand von Ludwiger, Ph.D. Electrical Eng'g, privately published by Robert Bigelow, NIDS, gifted to me by Eric Davis
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 13:09:39 GMT
Plutronus, if you (ever) do write a book I'll be one of the first to buy a copy and read it. Please sign it as well ?
Cliff
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Post by plutronus on Jan 30, 2020 8:07:26 GMT
Plutronus, if you (ever) do write a book I'll be one of the first to buy a copy and read it. Please sign it as well ? Cliff Cliff,
Thank you, and yes I will.
plutronus
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 9:03:56 GMT
Plutronus, if you (ever) do write a book I'll be one of the first to buy a copy and read it. Please sign it as well ? Cliff Cliff,
Thank you, and yes I will.
plutronus
It's good to see you here !
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drwu
Full Member
Posts: 209
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Post by drwu on Feb 1, 2020 17:56:12 GMT
Thanks for the interesting reply. I'm sure Dr Mack probably had a complicated take on the whole abduction matter and probably did change his point of view over time. Sadly he died and was not able to continue his investigation into the so-called alien abduction phenomenon. Regarding your comments on Reptilians, The Bible, aliens, humankind, etc, I have to say I am not a believer in that line of esoteric thinking. I do try to keep an open mind but to me most of these things come down to 'myth' with very little to support any of the claims as far as I can tell. I have read a number of books over the last 40 years....both ufo related and occult /metaphysical in nature ,and while I find them interesting and even fascinating at times, they seem to have no actual support in a factual basis...at least none that I have ever come across. Perhaps I am not looking in the right places. I will take a look at that link to Dr Boulay...as I enjoy reading unusual material. If you have a book that encapsulates your main ideas on Reptilians and the human race please tell me as I would enjoy checking it out. DrWu,
It is rewarding that there are people who actually read my posts. Thank you.
Not intending to demean Dr. John Mack in any sense, however, from the perspective of the public view, Dr. Mack was the only academic psychologist interested in any aspect of the alien presence problem and so, much of what people believe, simply through inference, what that the psychology world thinks about alien presence is rather slanted. Due to effectiveness of intelligence promoted disinformation processes since the Project Blue-Book era many interested academics study the subjects covertly, associating only with other secretly studying associates. Of these 'secret' study associations there is the so-called 'invisible-college', a group of hidden from public view, academics who secretly study ET subjects. From that perspective, there are numerous psychology academics who are proponents of and are participating in the study of near earth ET presence sociology. Many of these academics not only suspect that Earth is undergoing varying forms of alien contact, but also believe that these processes have been ongoing for possibly centuries, which scientifically implies, through scientific experience, that ET have been here much too long to simply be studying us. It is likely that there is some other as yet, seemingly, unknown agenda being orchestrated.
Here are a few of these invisible-college psychologists, Drs Dean Radin, Jessica Utts, Beverly Rubiak, Russle Targ, Allen Tough, Albert Harrison, etc. Most if not all, are prolific paper writers, also, lecturers and are/were members of the Society for Scientific Exploration and the attendent published academic peer reviewed journal, JSE. Several of these academics either currently work, or have worked in the past, for billionaires Rockefeller, Paul Allen (via Intraval) and Robert Bigelow, all specifically doing ET science. Dr. Allen Tough, (deceased), was an associate and a member of my SETV group. Allen told me when I asked him why he was searching for ET, as he had not directly experienced ET contact, said, "I see lots of smoke, but I can't find the fire. I know that ET is here." And that, pretty much sums the matter for almost everyone as probably for you as well.
If ET is here, then, 'Where is the smoking gun evidence?', everyone asks.
Unfortunately I do not. The information I shared is an integration of peices of information I gleaned from a large body of mish-mashed information sources while the main theme is essentially my own speculation. A number of my friends and associations have been cajoling me to write a book, but I am a bit reticent to do so, I mean, do we really need yet another experiencer book replete with yet more unprovable non-factual information? While my story is unique, so are also most other experiencer journeys.
Although a number of folks have upon hearing elements of my studies and experiences, have repeatedly stated that I must have read Zacharia Sitchin's books. However, it is true that I did see the full collection of Sitchin's books on a freind's book shelf a few years ago, however, that is the closest I have come to those books. I have never opened or reviewed any of Zacharia Sitchin's books. So, maybe those books might provide some similar information?
The integration of the Mystical Qabalah, Hebrew and Reptilian information, is that of my own studies of Sinatic Hebrew, of the Sefer Yetzirah, collection of ET information on the InterNet, having read dozens of old UFO books, and information presented in Rosicrucian curricula. The Rosicrucian information is claimed to have originated through ancient Egypt and off world, in addition with my own psychic contacts, that of my mother's, and telepathic contact with certain ET specis and then my psychic observation of Reptilian craft activities in the upper planes.
Best Regards
plutronus
A few good ET subject books: 'Unconventional Flying Objects, a scientific analysis", Paul Hill, NASA propulsion physicist, "Project Identification - the first scientific field study of UFOs", Harley Rutledge, Dept Chair of Physics, UoM.edu, "Flying Saucers - Serious Business", Frank Edwards, 1800s ~ 1950s long time print news journalist and radio news journalist, interested in flying saucers,
"Best UFO Cases - Europe", Illobrand von Ludwiger, Ph.D. Electrical Eng'g, privately published by Robert Bigelow, NIDS, gifted to me by Eric Davis
I am familiar with the group called 'The Invisible College' (and the names you posted). Indeed the first I heard of it was in an early book (same title) by Dr J Vallee, who said he worked with this group in trying to uncover information on the ufo enigma. I highly recommend all of Dr Vallee's books....especially Messengers of Deception, Invisible College, Dimensions, Confrontations, and Revelations. As far as 'researchers' and ufologists I think he is the most informed and has done more field work that most in the area (he also was associated with Bigelow's group). He also isn't afraid to think out of the box. I tend to use Dr Vallee's guidelines and themes when exploring the phenomenon. Dr Vallee wrote of a 'Control System' that he hypothesized might be in place to manipulate humans over the centuries to either confuse or educate us in alternate ideas regarding religion and metaphysical matters. It is intriguing but very hard to pin down in any concrete manner. I haven't really investigated this area for many years but I do occasionally read a book on the area. I have read Sitchin's books some years ago and others in that area. You can get a summary probably on any web search of his main ideas. He does tie in 'alien overlords' via the Annunaki idea. I also recommend Bramleys' book The Gods Of Eden...it's theme is also human control over centuries by unknown alien overlords. While I find these books fascinating, there is simply no way to know if any of it is true in any way. Some of the historical aspects ring true but tying it into aliens is pure speculation...for the most part. I have also read on Qabalah(Kabbalah), Alchemy, Illuminati, eastern religions, and the western occult tradition, including Rosicrucian philosophy....btw Dr Vallee spent time in a Rosicrucian group. I once entertained the idea of joining and also looked into Fourth Way (Gurdjieff) groups but due to work and family obligation never actually joined. Thanks for the link and book recommendations...if you wish to have a longer correspondence with just us feel free to send a private message here and we can talk via our own private e-mails. dr wu ps: I was fortunate in that I actually engaged in e-mails once with Dr Vallee (early 2000's) and spoke on the phone to Dr Hynek (mid 1980;s). I mention this only because Dr Hynek told me on the phone conversation that he thought that Dr Vallee's ideas of a non ET origin (ie, dimensional or alternate reality) to be something well worth looking into. This was over 30 years ago.
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Post by plutronus on Feb 5, 2020 11:00:07 GMT
Dr. WU,
I apologize for the tardy reply. I am not ignoring you. It takes a bit out of me to chat about that period in my life, a lot happened and I'm still smoking in a few places from it all. I will reply in a day or two, when I get more time to devote to the reply.
As for private communications, writing is exhausting in my opinion, I've been posting using computers since before the advent of the InterNet, and personally, I prefer verbal chats in any case. If you'd care to chat by Skype, that would be cool, but then others here in the forum would miss out of the dialog, and I suspect, judging by the numbers of 'guests' that I suspect many are Hollywood theme media people. And anything that edifies those intransitives who believe ET subjects to be non-sense might enable them to write interesting and maybe even informed ET related entertainment.
Back in the old days of the 'Net, when news-groups were the intellectual hangouts of academic world, I was a posting member of the alt.alien.ufo newsgroup. As a side trivia, one of the posters there, was a fellow by the name of Richard Dolan. He was a smart and informed fellow, it was always good to read his posts as he debated with uninformed, lay-experts. But back to the point, I noticed that after a few weeks, a few of our abandoned discussions threads would seem to match the themes of the UAP related X-Files episodes. After a time, members of the newsgroup were then citing the shows as being validation for their theories, not realizing that the show writers were using our threads as the basis for their shows! X-Files had become one of the most popular shows on TV due to our information. Hah!
When I mentioned the matter, the shows took a different path and no longer reflected our newsgroup thinking.
How do you feel about skype?
plutronus
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