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Post by purr on Apr 12, 2018 13:56:55 GMT
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Post by HAL on Apr 12, 2018 21:24:02 GMT
Purr,
...(uhh.. the guy was a licensed pilot, reportedly an instructor as well) were red herrings intended to raise doubt and pre-emptively marginalize his account...
Agreed, he was a licensed PPL pilot. But he did not hold a commercial license. That was his aim. When you dig back into the case you'll find he failed the meet the standard required and it bothered him.
While he did act as an instructor (to PPL level), he was lucky not to lose his license after (I think, from memory) not following the rules in a controlled area.
...Whole plane abductions might be bad for commercial aviation...
I'm not familiar with many whole aircraft abductions. And I suspect the chances of being involved in one are much less than being involved in any other aviation accident; and they are very low. There is one very interesting case where a plane purportedly disappeared on final approach. I can't recall the details off-hand.
It's all in the record.
HAL
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Post by nyx on Apr 12, 2018 21:51:42 GMT
I believe UFOs love anything airport or airplane.
What comes to mind is 2007 Alderney UFO where Capt.Ray Bowyer and passengers saw a mile long UFO, and Paul Kelly at ATC picked up a signal with no transponder near Capt.Bowyer.
Then of course, the 2006 Chicago O'Hare Airport UFO where lots of United Airline employees saw this UFO go straight up punching a hole in the clouds.
Valentich is a real brain twister.
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Post by purr on Apr 13, 2018 10:46:55 GMT
I believe UFOs love anything airport or airplane. What comes to mind is 2007 Alderney UFO where Capt.Ray Bowyer and passengers saw a mile long UFO, and Paul Kelly at ATC picked up a signal with no transponder near Capt.Bowyer. Then of course, the 2006 Chicago O'Hare Airport UFO where lots of United Airline employees saw this UFO go straight up punching a hole in the clouds. Valentich is a real brain twister. Thanks for reminding us that Frederick Valentich mid-air UFO report doesn't stand alone. Instead it's one experience within a sizeable body of evidence comprised of pilot UFO encounters, sightings and even (like your Alderney reference, the kind pertinent to aviation safety) those which could fall under near misses / PROXIMITY ALERTS. HAL is right imo, the chances of being in one of the latter is infinitesimally small. Cases like Valentich indicate it is not equal to zero. purr
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Post by purr on Apr 18, 2018 19:25:10 GMT
From member Dave54 posting on the Valentich incident at UCB-1: Dave54 wrote:Pieces of aircraft from the make/model of plane were recovered (engine cowling, et al) and no other disappearances of that make/model in that area were known. While not conclusive, it is very strong evidence he crashed. Dave54 wrote:In my previous post I admitted it was not proof, only evidence. In contrast, there is absolutely NO evidence of any extraterrestial encounter. None. Even the radio transcripts do not mention extraterrestial spacecraft, only his descriptions of what he claimed he saw. Descriptions that numerous other researchers and aviation experts concede may not be accurate and are misperceptions and distortions of ordinary objects by an inexperienced pilot. There is no conclusive proof of exactly what happened on that flight. The truth may never be recoverable. The point here is the probabilities lie with spatial disorientation and a crash. Any suggestion of alien spacecraft is fabricated speculation with zero supporting evidence. I am going with the odds on this one. purr replied:We can't just count number of disappeared Cessna, Dave54, but all Cessna potentially crashed and abandoned and scrapped in the region. Call it: lots. What was found was 'mystery' debris, not unlike the 'mystery' landings allegedly reported in the vicinity, around Frederich Valentich disappearance. None of these objects or observations directly link to this young pilot's true fate. Simply there's neither proof of Valentich landing in secret or suffering a crash. You are perfectly correct in pointing out your post did not claim proof positive of Valentich crashing. But is that recovered engine cowl flap evidence he did after all. Well, the pieces of cowl debris, I believe three in all, were matched to Cessnas of the type he piloted that night, yet actually found five years later. "Five years later, an engine cowl flap was discovered on Flinders Island, washed in from the sea. It was positively identified as coming from a Cessna 182 of the same batch as the rental aircraft that Valentich was flying. No other trace was ever found."Can't guess how many of this type/"batch" of Cessnas were scrapped, somehow were 'lost' over there in five years since Valentich disappearance, Dave54, but it would have been more than one or two. Mind you, such Cessnas may also have been used in unreported drugs/crime related activities. Modern forensics should be able to narrow this down. But, googling some, I have not been succesful in finding a reference to the parts having been made available to investigators, or their storage/location anywhere. Any other members who know about this? Could they have been found and then inadvertently scrapped? I am just not sure of the value of the recovered engine cowl flap, nor whether parts have any bearing on Valentich at all. (As to them space aliens no one is conclusively saying they did it either. But the fact is that the pilot reported seeing a fast, erratically moving flying object with properties sometimes associated with pilot UFO sightings.) purr
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Post by HAL on Apr 19, 2018 19:44:32 GMT
Purr,
.. Even the radio transcripts do not mention extraterrestial spacecraft, only his descriptions of what he claimed he saw...
But he does say twice in the radio conversation that it wasn't an aircraft.
HAL
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Post by purr on Apr 19, 2018 23:18:25 GMT
Purr, .. Even the radio transcripts do not mention extraterrestial spacecraft, only his descriptions of what he claimed he saw... But he does say twice in the radio conversation that it wasn't an aircraft. HAL I somehow suspect you're quoting dr Wu here (copied&pasted from UCB-1), hi HAL, and I cannot tell for sure who/ from where you are quoting but I'd say it's a fair description of (part of) the Valentich transmission. Here's my position for all it's worth (hardly different from Wu's, as I was replying to his post) repeated from the first page in this thread: Valentich did NOT claim, during his exchange with air control, to see a UFO! His initial query was concerning (what appeared to be) a large aircraft, with bright landing lights. As the conversation progressed, high speed observed, he asked if it could be military aircraft on his flightpath.
Of course, you and me are free to say it was a possible unidentified flying object. We're on the right site for it ! And if said here, UFO might include True UFO (probable alien craft), visual error (Venus, light mirage, meteorite etc.) or some acute neurological/psychiatric episode affecting the pilot! However Valentich made no UFO claim.
I believe you may be right about Valentich saying it wasn't an aircraft. Of course the whole point of concluding someone is reporting a UFO is their inability to make a positive identification of a flying object observed. The transcript makes it clear he tried, referring to the appearance of landing lights (of a presumable aircraft) and inquiring after military flights (in case they were fighters), yet in the end he failed to categorize whatever it was he was seeing.
purr P.S. I just saw your quote was from Dave54, my bad...
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Post by nyx on Apr 20, 2018 1:47:58 GMT
John F Kennedy, Jr. crashed because at night over water he did not know where the horizon was, every thing looked the same. Valentich could have been flying "up side down" over night ocean and crashed into the waters. How good of pilot was he? BUT here is his "actual" voice transmission! It sounds like a UFO to me, you decide. It is in English, but with some kind of other language subtitles, but his voice. www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOTi-dLBJYNote: The comment section has put into question if this transmission is the "real voice" or some actor?
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Post by purr on Apr 20, 2018 10:11:56 GMT
John F Kennedy, Jr. crashed because at night over water he did not know where the horizon was, every thing looked the same. Valentich could have been flying "up side down" over night ocean and crashed into the waters. How good of pilot was he? BUT here is his "actual" voice transmission! It sounds like a UFO to me, you decide. It is in English, but with some kind of other language subtitles, but his voice. www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIOTi-dLBJYNote: The comment section has put into question if this transmission is the "real voice" or some actor? Hi Nyx, I dare presume this is an enactment with actors' voices based on the transcript. There's a rumor online that the Ozzy gov provided Frederick's dad with an actual audio copy on the strict provision it was for his ears only. See what you make of that ! Apart from that the real audio seems to have been put under wraps, imo the Australian version of ATS. (Because.... SUMTIN really happened in those skies.) More stuff about, like this one: The Last Few Seconds of Frederick Valentich Radio Transmission by Australian UFO Action (no provenance provided)Add grains of salt liberally...... OK. All that said: just going by the transcript, the Valentich radio transmission constitutes a pilot UFO sighting and encounter report. The question remains what caused it... purr insert code here
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 1:45:59 GMT
I somehow suspect you're quoting dr Wu here (copied&pasted from UCB-1), hi HAL, and I cannot tell for sure who/ from where you are quoting but I'd say it's a fair description of (part of) the Valentich transmission. Interesting..both of you kept archives? It's a pretty unusual piece to have at hand.. Can you zip everything and share..Lots of us really really miss the old stuff and frankly I thought for sure Billy was going to transfer..I would have gladly paid and helped share.. ..It's been quite the let down.. pm me any cost involved.and Illl cheerfully remit payment immediately..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 7:23:16 GMT
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Post by purr on Jun 14, 2018 10:35:32 GMT
I somehow suspect you're quoting dr Wu here (copied&pasted from UCB-1), hi HAL, and I cannot tell for sure who/ from where you are quoting but I'd say it's a fair description of (part of) the Valentich transmission. Interesting..both of you kept archives? It's a pretty unusual piece to have at hand.. Can you zip everything and share..Lots of us really really miss the old stuff and frankly I thought for sure Billy was going to transfer..I would have gladly paid and helped share.. ..It's been quite the let down.. pm me any cost involved.and Illl cheerfully remit payment immediately.. Purr, .. Even the radio transcripts do not mention extraterrestial spacecraft, only his descriptions of what he claimed he saw... But he does say twice in the radio conversation that it wasn't an aircraft. HAL I somehow suspect you're quoting dr Wu here (copied&pasted from UCB-1), hi HAL, and I cannot tell for sure who/ from where you are quoting but I'd say it's a fair description of (part of) the Valentich transmission. Here's my position for all it's worth (hardly different from Wu's, as I was replying to his post) repeated from the first page in this thread: Valentich did NOT claim, during his exchange with air control, to see a UFO! His initial query was concerning (what appeared to be) a large aircraft, with bright landing lights. As the conversation progressed, high speed observed, he asked if it could be military aircraft on his flightpath.
Of course, you and me are free to say it was a possible unidentified flying object. We're on the right site for it ! And if said here, UFO might include True UFO (probable alien craft), visual error (Venus, light mirage, meteorite etc.) or some acute neurological/psychiatric episode affecting the pilot! However Valentich made no UFO claim.
I believe you may be right about Valentich saying it wasn't an aircraft. Of course the whole point of concluding someone is reporting a UFO is their inability to make a positive identification of a flying object observed. The transcript makes it clear he tried, referring to the appearance of landing lights (of a presumable aircraft) and inquiring after military flights (in case they were fighters), yet in the end he failed to categorize whatever it was he was seeing.
purr P.S. I just saw your quote was from Dave54, my bad... I'm a bit confused by how the quote system and standard draft representation work at our new site here, EmbassyKat, but to answer I pressed the obvious buttons and hope what's appearing overhead will make sense somehow. The answer is at the end, pertinent quote wasn't from Wu but another member Dave54. Sorry, my memory goes rather fuzzy after that! purr
P.S. looove your avatar kitten perched precariously on Assange's shoulder. We can all only hope for at least one such reliable friend once down the rabbit hole...
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Post by lonegunman on Jun 14, 2018 14:56:10 GMT
Kat, This is a phenom is known by pilots for many decades. Here is Conn. at Bradley International about 7-8 years ago. a heavy transport plane from FedEx took off and a private plane ignored a warning to wait 5-6 minutes before taking off on the same runway. He got about 1000 ft elevation and the plane got caught in the Heavies left wings vortex and did 4-5 barrel rolls before the vortex kicked the plane loose. The three passengers were bruised and bloodied but alive and landed safely. The plane was a Cessna 172 and they aren't acrobatic certified for anything like what it went through ! They are lucky the wings or tail didn't get torn off.
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Post by HAL on Jun 14, 2018 21:05:48 GMT
Sys, . .I somehow suspect you're quoting dr Wu here (copied&pasted from UCB-1), hi HAL, and I cannot tell for sure who/ from where you are quoting but I'd say it's a fair description of (part of) the Valentich transmission... I'm referencing the account found in Timothy Good's book 'Above top secret'. So I don't really have any info that isn't already out there. There have been a couple of documentaries about it. But in the end it all seems to come down to no one knowing what really happened. The bit about the airfield runway lights is quite important as he would have known that it was going to be dark when he arrived and that there would be no one at the airfield to turn on the lights. This is what makes it so odd. He would have had to request the lights before he left base. Also the fact that fishermen affirm that crayfish were not available at the time. If he was to collect the crays then one assumes he must have ordered them earlier. At that point he should have been made aware that they were not available. It is said that the real reason for the trip was to clock up some more night flying hours. Nothing particularly unusual in this. There is also the added mystery of the two divers who are supposed to have come forward with a handful of pictures supposedly of the Cessna under the water. Complete with correct registration numbers. They wanted $10,000 9Aus) to divulge the location. The real mystery of this claim is that, if true, why did the police simply not step in and insist that they be taken to the site. It's very similar to someone saying 'oh yes, that body you have been looking for. I know where it is but I won't tell you unless you pay me'. HAL
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Post by purr on Jul 31, 2018 21:59:58 GMT
Sys, . .I somehow suspect you're quoting dr Wu here (copied&pasted from UCB-1), hi HAL, and I cannot tell for sure who/ from where you are quoting but I'd say it's a fair description of (part of) the Valentich transmission... I'm referencing the account found in Timothy Good's book 'Above top secret'. So I don't really have any info that isn't already out there. There have been a couple of documentaries about it. But in the end it all seems to come down to no one knowing what really happened. The bit about the airfield runway lights is quite important as he would have known that it was going to be dark when he arrived and that there would be no one at the airfield to turn on the lights. This is what makes it so odd. He would have had to request the lights before he left base. Also the fact that fishermen affirm that crayfish were not available at the time. If he was to collect the crays then one assumes he must have ordered them earlier. At that point he should have been made aware that they were not available. It is said that the real reason for the trip was to clock up some more night flying hours. Nothing particularly unusual in this. There is also the added mystery of the two divers who are supposed to have come forward with a handful of pictures supposedly of the Cessna under the water. Complete with correct registration numbers. They wanted $10,000 9Aus) to divulge the location. The real mystery of this claim is that, if true, why did the police simply not step in and insist that they be taken to the site. It's very similar to someone saying 'oh yes, that body you have been looking for. I know where it is but I won't tell you unless you pay me'. HAL Some of the oddness, HAL, may due to the repeated (over?)emphasis on the supposed requirement Valentich had to request the airstrip lights "before he left base". Could it be he might just as well use his radio inflight (as he obviously was doing!) to contact the folks handling the lights, except that he never made it as far? Imo "before he left" is interchangeable with "in time". Also the crayfish errand has perhaps been given too much weight. Don't we all carry out many tasks, run several errands every day, without giving full account of our planning to the people around us. He could have changed plans on the go (having been informed about crayfish unavailability) yet not considered such changes important enough to pass this on. Because he didn't expect life as he knew it to end suddenly. Without the actual plane, the divers dealt in rumor. (Plenty of that goin around in this plane & pilot disappearance.) purr
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