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Post by bonehead on Jun 9, 2018 16:57:45 GMT
Bonehead, .. .Unbeliever, what is that? I do not think that anybody can experience life without picking up some beliefs along the way... ... If you had no beliefs, you would never have asked the questions you did above... This life you talk about. Define it. Life is the persistent sequential stream of conscious experience you have had in "this world" since you were born and up to the present moment. But when I talk about the beliefs we have all picked up along the way that is a function, not of conscious experience, but of culture. Culture is very formative to our consciousness during this sojourn we call life. First, it supplies the language that we use to structure our thinking and communication. I cannot emphasize enough how fundamental that is.
Here is a perfect example: "if it is not real, it does not matter". That is a common belief in our culture. But notice how the very language reinforces the superstition that matter is everything and that stuff that is not considered important "does not matter". This is a language double-bind that reinforces the common cultural belief - and to some extent, disallows "subversive" thoughts that run counter to the common cultural superstition. That is why Galileo was pilloried in his day: he dared to challenge the commonly held superstitions of the day. Our culture tends to believe that "the age of reason" and the scientific method have freed us from the regressive tendencies of superstition. But ironically, that is yet another unsupported superstition. You cannot get out of that conundrum if you wanted to. Ultimately, superstition is just another word for belief and we have not in any way evolved past that persistent epistemic pitfall.
In another language, a corollary to the above statement may not even be possible! So, the implications of that belief are merely a subjective symptom of our specific culture. If consciousness is fundamental, then belief is the clay that forms what we are willing to conceive of with our consciousness. In a sense, we become what we think. That has huge implications.
And that is the importance of belief in your life. It is the fundamental stuff that shapes what you do with your consciousness, which is fundamental. You could not even respond to this posting without a long string of sequential beliefs setting that action into motion - starting with the language you use to construct your thoughts. You cannot say you do not have any beliefs because that is a belief in itself! Do you see what I am getting at?
If you believe that there is no corpus involved, and life and the body are inextricable mixed, How can your non material life have a (material) body. Good question. But to be clear, the corpus is a persistent mirage. So it does exist on that liminal level. It is just not made up of deterministic "stuff" as it all seems to be, and more importantly, science believes it to be. As for how non-material agencies acquire material gravitas, I do not have an answer. You will have to ask the folks that actually DO it!
D'oh! Sorry. .. I have all kind of wacked out beliefs.. Now that I can believe. Sorry, but the Bonehead Church of Immaterial Existentialism does not appeal to me. That is fine. Wait until you die. Then you will see that i was right. Or not.....
Cheers!!
BoneheadHAL
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Post by purr on Jun 10, 2018 20:56:10 GMT
Thanks for interesting link, Bonehead. I resonate with most of what's said in there, yet on an emotional level material reality remains quite real to me. Didn't Einstein too sense its "persistence"? Also I remember bumping into the occasional wall and door, hit my head getting into a car recently, and the solidness of matter made a lasting impression on me. I take away from your explanation and linked article, not so much making our world more illusory, but that those imaginations, inner convictions, psychic experiences and alien encounters may be elevated to alternative forms of reality.
That said, I believe that what you claim is true, yet experiencing its reality (that word again!) depends on what you do in your life, whether fate takes you through experiences too weird (yet intensely real to you) to fit accepted, scientific models. At that poiint the mind expands the experiencer's reality, who from this moment on lives in a bigger universe.
purr
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 2:02:18 GMT
What has that got to do with the subject matter..if 22 million was already spent and more is invested as a crock by known shady characters like Reid and Bigelow...what's any of this philisophical dialetic got to do with ..anything?..It's like playing tic tac toe..no solution..except that the people with control and money want a certain narrative ..pov..one in development..a new alien is under construction..case in point..vatican now pushing for excorcism via digital phone..think about that..in the totality of all thats happening..not just "ufology" which is more like morphology but religion..human rights..the latter decreasing in leaps and bounds..as well as access to data..abused at high levels..constrained at ours..(UK wants to make Memes illegal) I would treat Harrys project as another boondoggle hidden under the perennial Its a secret ..a dangling carrot.whilst the rest of us are getting a real world hosing ..so I repeat the question..what has all that got to do with this crew of less than honest characters?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 6:16:45 GMT
What we are looking at is not a phenomenon but a stealthy marketing campaign..same as it ever was..
With AI points across the Information network can be addressed simultaneously, example..wikpedia, to create a history..or delete..youtube to create a 100 percent convincing cg1.. as opposed to the older models although human intervention is still necessary....the deception modeling for belief systems is a full turnkey operation.. It was just a question of time..
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Post by purr on Jun 11, 2018 9:27:37 GMT
What has that got to do with the subject matter..if 22 million was already spent and more is invested as a crock by known shady characters like Reid and Bigelow...what's any of this philisophical dialetic got to do with ..anything?..It's like playing tic tac toe..no solution..except that the people with control and money want a certain narrative ..pov..one in development..a new alien is under construction..case in point..vatican now pushing for excorcism via digital phone..think about that..in the totality of all thats happening..not just "ufology" which is more like morphology but religion..human rights..the latter decreasing in leaps and bounds..as well as access to data..abused at high levels..constrained at ours..(UK wants to make Memes illegal) I would treat Harrys project as another boondoggle hidden under the perennial Its a secret ..a dangling carrot.whilst the rest of us are getting a real world hosing ..so I repeat the question..what has all that got to do with this crew of less than honest characters? Mmmmm, that's a rhetorical question, isn't it, Aluminati Kat? OK make it real and let's say: DOES IT? (....have something/anything to do with the subject matter..).
To position myself, the "crock" part (in Reid overseen and Bigelow's investigations) is deceptive elements, areas of exclusion so as not to get in the way of active black projects or classified information, making sure the boat is not rocked. But in my view the basic premise and underlying phenomenon is no crock, Kat: our world really has been visited, impacted and personally engaged by yet to be defined 'alien' players.
The Roswell Incident was when one hell of a tinfoil (the most real kind) hat got slapped on our heads. And also imo a minor percentage of UFO observations and alien encounters are caused by non-human actors.
So even if (expensive) research is INTENTIONALLY deceptive/incomplete in scope there's something real to investigate.
But I hear what you're saying. UFO research is being (mis)used to change our human society for the worse....
purr
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Post by bonehead on Jun 11, 2018 15:55:36 GMT
What has that got to do with the subject matter..if 22 million was already spent and more is invested as a crock by known shady characters like Reid and Bigelow...what's any of this philisophical dialetic got to do with ..anything?..It's like playing tic tac toe..no solution..except that the people with control and money want a certain narrative ..pov..one in development..a new alien is under construction..case in point..vatican now pushing for excorcism via digital phone..think about that..in the totality of all thats happening..not just "ufology" which is more like morphology but religion..human rights..the latter decreasing in leaps and bounds..as well as access to data..abused at high levels..constrained at ours..(UK wants to make Memes illegal) I would treat Harrys project as another boondoggle hidden under the perennial Its a secret ..a dangling carrot.whilst the rest of us are getting a real world hosing ..so I repeat the question..what has all that got to do with this crew of less than honest characters? Kat,
You have to go back and look at the original article. All of this commentary is directly relevant to what was said in the article regarding the human body as a "readout system" for UFO encounters. Here is the relevant passage:
"The BAASS manager also described research methodologies tailored to explain multiple eyewitnesses reporting “widely different events.” The new methodology, premised on “utilizing the human body as a readout system for dissecting interactions with the UFO phenomenon,” was put in place because BAASS came to believe evidence indicated “the UFO phenomenon was capable of manipulating and distorting human perception,” making eyewitness testimony “increasingly untrustworthy.”" This ties in directly with things I have been posting on here for many years now. So, all of this commentary is directly relevant. Even if most folks reject it out of hand. These guys got lots of money to come to more or less the same conclusion I have been touting for years now. Where is my cut?
Clearly you are more concerned with conspiracy theories around financing Bigelow and company. But just to be clear, 22 million dollars is chump change in the grand scheme of things. If you want to get uppity about that, it is your right. But I am far more concerned about the billions upon billions of dollars the US spends every year on better ways to kill people in foreign lands or spy on people here in our own country. That stuff is unapologetically sociopathic. Go ahead, give more money to Bigelow. I would rather see it there than wasted on the juvenile, chest puffing machismo that passes for "International relations" these days. Humanity is going down the tubes, and you are worried that Bigelow got a tiny cash injection for research that is directly relevant to our given subject....
Sorry, I don't share your outrage. It sounds just like the same petty crap that comes pouring out of the media in waves every day now. It is much ado about nothing of any great import as far as i am concerned.
Bonehead
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Post by bonehead on Jun 11, 2018 16:56:59 GMT
Thanks for interesting link, Bonehead. I resonate with most of what's said in there, yet on an emotional level material reality remains quite real to me. Didn't Einstein too sense its "persistence"? Also I remember bumping into the occasional wall and door, hit my head getting into a car recently, and the solidness of matter made a lasting impression on me. I take away from your explanation and linked article, not so much making our world more illusory, but that those imaginations, inner convictions, psychic experiences and alien encounters may be elevated to alternative forms of reality.
That said, I believe that what you claim is true, yet experiencing its reality (that word again!) depends on what you do in your life, whether fate takes you through experiences too weird (yet intensely real to you) to fit accepted, scientific models. At that poiint the mind expands the experiencer's reality, who from this moment on lives in a bigger universe.
purr
Thanks Purr!
I agree. Those immaterial experiences are more "real" than our culture would prefer to believe. When you begin to study realms of consciousness (as i have) you begin to see how limited the cultural status quo beliefs actually are. There are lots of that kind of info out there for the curious. Science mostly rejects it, but intellectually, that only expands their ignorance. And here is the kicker: once i started looking at things differently, I applied the same to the UFO mythos. When you lump together the sum total of the lore and look at it carefully, you begin to see that the whole mythos is coherent and begins to speak with one primary voice.
Yeah, crazy. Right? No crazier than thinking it could only be alien dudes in interstellar spaceships, in my opinion.
Here is a question for you: have you ever had a psychic experience? You know like 'knowing' how something will turn out before it happens, encounters with ghosts, or deja vu feelings about a place (or person) you have just seen for the first time? I don't know about you, but I believe all people have these experiences. I sure have had them. The thing is, most people in our culture will reject these things out of hand even when they actually happen to them. Our culture does not believe in such things, so to experience them is risky. It kind of makes you look flaky or worse, crazy.
But, isn't it crazier to reject an experience you actually had because you are worried what your next-door neighbor might think about it? That is how i feel about it. I know what happened to me. I was there. I am not going to discount my experiences, just because they might be unpopular. The status quo has no monopoly on the truth. I prefer to read between the lines and try to find a confabulated "truth" I can be comfortable with....
Bonehead
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 0:13:42 GMT
What has that got to do with the subject matter..if 22 million was already spent and more is invested as a crock by known shady characters like Reid and Bigelow...what's any of this philisophical dialetic got to do with ..anything?..It's like playing tic tac toe..no solution..except that the people with control and money want a certain narrative ..pov..one in development..a new alien is under construction..case in point..vatican now pushing for excorcism via digital phone..think about that..in the totality of all thats happening..not just "ufology" which is more like morphology but religion..human rights..the latter decreasing in leaps and bounds..as well as access to data..abused at high levels..constrained at ours..(UK wants to make Memes illegal) I would treat Harrys project as another boondoggle hidden under the perennial Its a secret ..a dangling carrot.whilst the rest of us are getting a real world hosing ..so I repeat the question..what has all that got to do with this crew of less than honest characters? Kat,
You have to go back and look at the original article. All of this commentary is directly relevant to what was said in the article regarding the human body as a "readout system" for UFO encounters. Here is the relevant passage:
"The BAASS manager also described research methodologies tailored to explain multiple eyewitnesses reporting “widely different events.” The new methodology, premised on “utilizing the human body as a readout system for dissecting interactions with the UFO phenomenon,” was put in place because BAASS came to believe evidence indicated “the UFO phenomenon was capable of manipulating and distorting human perception,” making eyewitness testimony “increasingly untrustworthy.”" This ties in directly with things I have been posting on here for many years now. So, all of this commentary is directly relevant. Even if most folks reject it out of hand. These guys got lots of money to come to more or less the same conclusion I have been touting for years now. Where is my cut?
Clearly you are more concerned with conspiracy theories around financing Bigelow and company. But just to be clear, 22 million dollars is chump change in the grand scheme of things. If you want to get uppity about that, it is your right. But I am far more concerned about the billions upon billions of dollars the US spends every year on better ways to kill people in foreign lands or spy on people here in our own country. That stuff is unapologetically sociopathic. Go ahead, give more money to Bigelow. I would rather see it there than wasted on the juvenile, chest puffing machismo that passes for "International relations" these days. Humanity is going down the tubes, and you are worried that Bigelow got a tiny cash injection for research that is directly relevant to our given subject....
Sorry, I don't share your outrage. It sounds just like the same petty crap that comes pouring out of the media in waves every day now. It is much ado about nothing of any great import as far as i am concerned.
Bonehead It sounds just like the same petty crap that comes pouring out of the media in waves every day now. It is much ado about nothing of any great import
The first thing I suggest is for you stop being a passive aggressive jerk..ok? Because that was a personal attack..whether its in pistachio green people can't read..or nordic white..its the same couched wide brush ( to steal your simile) "pouring out in waves" against people who question this BS and are a lot more skeptical given the track record of both government and business..
..who is on the ground running this is no conspiracy..same clowns as in years before dangling carrots..whether its exopolitics..Bigelow..aviary..you seriously believe this..go there..do a Delong number and tell them you'll do a triple AA writeup and represent them for free..minus expenses of course..I will look in anticipation for a report..
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Post by bonehead on Jun 12, 2018 15:24:42 GMT
Hey Kat,
My apologies for "passive aggressive" attacks. That was not my intention.
I have plenty of skepticism about Government motives as any old hands here can tell you. But I have no agro over the Bigelow thing. It does not bother me in the least. In fact, i support it whole heartedly.
My apologies.
Bonehead
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Post by nyx on Jun 12, 2018 22:07:47 GMT
UFOs are difficult enough to understand, but paranormal ghosts are a " horse of a different color", and really hard to comprehend!
There are very old farm homes with family grave yards on their property in my area.
Once a long time ago on a farm, I saw a skeleton in one of the house's windows.
Then the skeleton kinda turned into a image of a boy.
It has been said mirrors and windows are portals for the souls of people.
What is just crazy is that this ghost boy knew I was present outside in the yard.
The paranormal is another"rabbit hole" into the unknown.
The spirits sense you understand their predicament.
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