|
|
Post by purr on Oct 7, 2022 19:17:50 GMT
No doubt it depends on the faith and the individual's world view. Growing up as part of an Evangelical community I noticed a lot of reluctance on accepting the idea of other intelligent races from other planets crossing space to visit us here. If almighty God created us humans plus all living things plus the Universe around 4000 BCE in 7 days, and then all of Time and Biblical History unfolded, with Jesus saving everybody (on a volunteer basis of course!) to boot, shouldn't He have kinda MENTIONED if he was doing a similar thing on say 10,000 other distant worlds?
Instead the Christian 'heavens' (or Cosmos) would seem to be populated by God himself, Jesus, an army of their good Angels/Messengers, as well as an opposing side of Angels who have fallen away from God and become Demons, whose singular objective is to destroy mankind, body and soul and thus cause a rift between the Creator and his Creation.
Hence the trend among many more fundamentalist believers to classify anything that is not human, Angel or God himself flying in our skies as demonic.
It has been many decades since being a teenager of such innocent beliefs. By now I've come to view the Bible as holding many secrets, memories of a human world that has perhaps been forever lost to us today. I am forever curious. To my older self UFOs seem so real a phenomenon, the Universe so big and old, that an untold number of evolved, insanely smart and technologically advanced species crossing space, even jumping between universes, seems hardly a stretch of the mind. Why not? Aren't we doing the same, entering space, discovering the secrets of the Multiverse, be it at 'Baby Steps' level? Just par for the road regarding Life.
I wonder, do or did any of you see a contradiction between your religious beliefs and the study of UFOlogy / belief in ET life?
purr
|
|
|
|
Post by swamprat on Oct 7, 2022 22:21:21 GMT
My father was a Presbyterian minister, and we had some conversations about the probability of extraterrestrial life. He was not aware of anything in Presbyterian documentation that would deny the possibility of such life. His personal opinion was that, given the science of evolution as we know it, the possibility of such life would exist. For all we know, God could have used evolution to create Adam and Eve.
Swamp
|
|
|
|
Post by bonehead2 on Oct 23, 2022 17:26:42 GMT
No doubt it depends on the faith and the individual's world view. Growing up as part of an Evangelical community I noticed a lot of reluctance on accepting the idea of other intelligent races from other planets crossing space to visit us here. If almighty God created us humans plus all living things plus the Universe around 4000 BCE in 7 days, and then all of Time and Biblical History unfolded, with Jesus saving everybody (on a volunteer basis of course!) to boot, shouldn't He have kinda MENTIONED if he was doing a similar thing on say 10,000 other distant worlds? I think you are conflating the biblical "omnipotent" 'creator god' with other "gods" in the bible, who, while certainly having extraordinary powers (by human standards), are clearly not the "rulers of the universe" but instead are merely the rulers and/or manipulators of mankind. This is one of the biggest weaknesses of the bible in that it proposes God (with a capital "G") and then refers to other "gods" or angels (or what have you) as clearly being more limited and, frankly, more human like than, well the creator of the universe.
On this point, the bible seems more confused and discombobulated than clear. Instead the Christian 'heavens' (or Cosmos) would seem to be populated by God himself, Jesus, an army of their good Angels/Messengers, as well as an opposing side of Angels who have fallen away from God and become Demons, whose singular objective is to destroy mankind, body and soul and thus cause a rift between the Creator and his Creation. Exactly. Where is that omnipotent God in all this roiling maelstrom of demigods, angels, demons and others? One thing clear to me is that the bible is totally unclear on the point of who or what is god (or God) and who or what is not. That seems like pretty shaky ground upon which to create a religious cult but, well, here we are. Hence the trend among many more fundamentalist believers to classify anything that is not human, Angel or God himself flying in our skies as demonic. It has been many decades since being a teenager of such innocent beliefs. By now I've come to view the Bible as holding many secrets, memories of a human world that has perhaps been forever lost to us today. I am forever curious. To my older self UFOs seem so real a phenomenon, the Universe so big and old, that an untold number of evolved, insanely smart and technologically advanced species crossing space, even jumping between universes, seems hardly a stretch of the mind. Why not? Aren't we doing the same, entering space, discovering the secrets of the Multiverse, be it at 'Baby Steps' level? Just par for the road regarding Life. While I think the bible is a fatally flawed as a basis for a belief system, due to its fuzziness and confusion, I also believe that it contains within it, a clear reference to earlier human times upon this earth. What's more, many things in the bible are corroborated by ancient myths and traditions from around the world. For instance, myths of the flood are found on all continents. This points to a common source for these stories. And it also points out that our contemporary belief that cultural "myths" are simply lies or fictional stories is an unsound and delusional position to take. Those myths are simply the histories of earlier times. Certainly, they have become corrupted over time as all stories do. But to dismiss them out of hand is to ignore the real value they certainly contain.I wonder, do or did any of you see a contradiction between your religious beliefs and the study of UFOlogy / belief in ET life? I spent enough time in church as child to determine, for myself, that religion is a cognitive short circuit designed to prevent us from trying to gain understanding through our own self-exploration. It is mostly a mental crutch that discourages real personal understanding by telling us precisely what to think and believe. It short circuits free-will in a bid for social conformity. I decided as a youngster that it was best for me to explore many things and try to figure these things out for myself rather than let a bunch of epistemologically limited folks in the church tell me what to believe.
So, no contradictions here. Do I believe there is life elsewhere in creation? Absolutely. Do I believe that the universe is a creation, and thus generated from some sort of creator? Yes. (Just don't cal it "God" as that is an unnecessarily loaded term.) Does any of this conflict with my personally curated belief system?
Nope. 
Cheers!!
Boneheadpurr |
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Oct 25, 2022 20:20:39 GMT
I was raised in a Christian family and have studied the Bible quite extensively. I was always intrigued by the question of
whether God also created planets with intelligent beings other than our Earth.
There is nothing in the Bible that specifically states that God created aliens or other beings of intelligence beyond the Earth.
However, there is nothing that says that he did NOT create other intelligent beings other than man.
So, as the Bible states, "it is not given to man to know all of the mysteries of the world."
This may be one of those mysteries.
|
|
|
|
Post by purr on Oct 31, 2022 8:12:36 GMT
No doubt it depends on the faith and the individual's world view. Growing up as part of an Evangelical community I noticed a lot of reluctance on accepting the idea of other intelligent races from other planets crossing space to visit us here. If almighty God created us humans plus all living things plus the Universe around 4000 BCE in 7 days, and then all of Time and Biblical History unfolded, with Jesus saving everybody (on a volunteer basis of course!) to boot, shouldn't He have kinda MENTIONED if he was doing a similar thing on say 10,000 other distant worlds? I think you are conflating the biblical "omnipotent" 'creator god' with other "gods" in the bible, who, while certainly having extraordinary powers (by human standards), are clearly not the "rulers of the universe" but instead are merely the rulers and/or manipulators of mankind. This is one of the biggest weaknesses of the bible in that it proposes God (with a capital "G") and then refers to other "gods" or angels (or what have you) as clearly being more limited and, frankly, more human like than, well the creator of the universe.
On this point, the bible seems more confused and discombobulated than clear. Instead the Christian 'heavens' (or Cosmos) would seem to be populated by God himself, Jesus, an army of their good Angels/Messengers, as well as an opposing side of Angels who have fallen away from God and become Demons, whose singular objective is to destroy mankind, body and soul and thus cause a rift between the Creator and his Creation. Exactly. Where is that omnipotent God in all this roiling maelstrom of demigods, angels, demons and others? One thing clear to me is that the bible is totally unclear on the point of who or what is god (or God) and who or what is not. That seems like pretty shaky ground upon which to create a religious cult but, well, here we are. Hence the trend among many more fundamentalist believers to classify anything that is not human, Angel or God himself flying in our skies as demonic. It has been many decades since being a teenager of such innocent beliefs. By now I've come to view the Bible as holding many secrets, memories of a human world that has perhaps been forever lost to us today. I am forever curious. To my older self UFOs seem so real a phenomenon, the Universe so big and old, that an untold number of evolved, insanely smart and technologically advanced species crossing space, even jumping between universes, seems hardly a stretch of the mind. Why not? Aren't we doing the same, entering space, discovering the secrets of the Multiverse, be it at 'Baby Steps' level? Just par for the road regarding Life. While I think the bible is a fatally flawed as a basis for a belief system, due to its fuzziness and confusion, I also believe that it contains within it, a clear reference to earlier human times upon this earth. What's more, many things in the bible are corroborated by ancient myths and traditions from around the world. For instance, myths of the flood are found on all continents. This points to a common source for these stories. And it also points out that our contemporary belief that cultural "myths" are simply lies or fictional stories is an unsound and delusional position to take. Those myths are simply the histories of earlier times. Certainly, they have become corrupted over time as all stories do. But to dismiss them out of hand is to ignore the real value they certainly contain.I wonder, do or did any of you see a contradiction between your religious beliefs and the study of UFOlogy / belief in ET life? I spent enough time in church as child to determine, for myself, that religion is a cognitive short circuit designed to prevent us from trying to gain understanding through our own self-exploration. It is mostly a mental crutch that discourages real personal understanding by telling us precisely what to think and believe. It short circuits free-will in a bid for social conformity. I decided as a youngster that it was best for me to explore many things and try to figure these things out for myself rather than let a bunch of epistemologically limited folks in the church tell me what to believe.
So, no contradictions here. Do I believe there is life elsewhere in creation? Absolutely. Do I believe that the universe is a creation, and thus generated from some sort of creator? Yes. (Just don't cal it "God" as that is an unnecessarily loaded term.) Does any of this conflict with my personally curated belief system?
Nope.
Cheers!!
Boneheadpurr I appreciate you pointing out a measure of confusion, especially in regard to who or what God truly is and what he wants with us, in the Bible. Yes, Bonehead2, there have been big problems with so called 'great' religions for thousands of years. Like the Hebrew religion and Christianity consolidating into nations with standing armies, carrying out God given commandments/laws within their territory plus throwing their weight around seeking to conquer new lands for respectively YHVH or Christ. Evolutionary perspective: these exemplify tribes of believers (was there any other kind?) fighting for survival through Space-Time and ending up relatively successful. Of course, then a believer can look back at their religion's history and conclude: our God did this, saved us, protected us thus showing he is the one true God.
I think you would agree that the idea of True God going to bloody war on earth, using fanatical tribes of his faithful to conquer, convert or kill the 'unbelievers' seems not congruent with for instance the God and Jesus the Son of God modern Christians trust and worship.
Still, I suspect the 'confusion' of Biblical times, its wars and bloodshed often at the Lord of Hosts' personal direction, did serve a purpose, just like the Holy Roman Empire. It was part of the brutal path Jews and Christians had to tread and SURVIVE in order to be here today, able to ask the deeper questions: what do I really believe? And who is God really?
At age 62, as an adherent of Christian Mysticism, I get a sense of focus thinking of God as a mysterious core of Good at the origin/creative moment/heart of the Multiverse. He/She/Whatever equals unending Kindness and Decency hidden within the Chaos and Suffering at work around us in the world.
As the path of Faith unfolds, God-believers may find a way to walk with God and wherever they go take the God of Kindness into that situation.
(I'll probably be needing a pulpit next  )
.
Next I suppose we are agreed on your and my faith (or worldview) although slightly different are compatible with weird Others dropping in doing weird stuff. God and ET imo can be a perfect fit for a mind. purr |
|
|
|
Post by purr on Oct 31, 2022 15:32:04 GMT
My father was a Presbyterian minister, and we had some conversations about the probability of extraterrestrial life. He was not aware of anything in Presbyterian documentation that would deny the possibility of such life. His personal opinion was that, given the science of evolution as we know it, the possibility of such life would exist. For all we know, God could have used evolution to create Adam and Eve.
Swamp I can't say I'm familiar with Presbyterian beliefs, Swamprat, but your father seems like an openminded person. purr |
|
|
|
Post by purr on Oct 31, 2022 15:56:06 GMT
I was raised in a Christian family and have studied the Bible quite extensively. I was always intrigued by the question of whether God also created planets with intelligent beings other than our Earth. There is nothing in the Bible that specifically states that God created aliens or other beings of intelligence beyond the Earth. However, there is nothing that says that he did NOT create other intelligent beings other than man. So, as the Bible states, "it is not given to man to know all of the mysteries of the world." This may be one of those mysteries. B J, I agree. But the way I read the Bible it has quite a few ufo sightings (at least there's weird ovens and wheels overhead) suggesting to me that Faith and UFOlogy are somehow linked. Taking that a few steps further: Is the Bible a record of Contact? Is religious faith a form of Contact? If the answer is imagined "Yes" then believers could observe God, Aliens and UFOs within the same reality and arrive at a conclusion. Which of these phenomena is real? What are they in and of themselves? purr |
|
|
|
Post by maxxhazzard on Feb 2, 2023 16:15:15 GMT
thankU for writing this topic; statistics posted: say 90% of religious people; don't read the Bible and have learned religion through Oral Tradition;
in Exodus; it is clear who gd is and what he want; gd talked to all the people at the base of a mountain; he spoke in a could; thundering and lighting and blowing the shofar; as the cloud sat on top of a mountain:
then there is Enoch; which is part of the Ethiopian-jewish bible: for many Jews and Christians alike; they find Enoch to unbelievable;
there are to many archeological finds to list that support the Bible; for me; its hard to deny there is not; some power greater than ourselves and that power; had made contact with our human ancestors and was documented;
you can come to the conclusion; aliens are the higher power; for what they have shown modern-man; there is no doubt; they are far beyond human knowledge;
I believe in One gd above all; this is stated throughout many religious scriptures; and therefore; I believe; gd created Aliens; and Aliens purpose; is to care for the Earth;
Hermes books tell of gd; who he is and the creation and operation of the earth; Hermes books tell; the human purpose and creation within the circle of life and light;
I have no doubt; there are many people that have been effected by extraterrestrial and mystic events and because of these events; these people; have a deep need to seek that higher power; some through the mystics; some through religion; which ever path you choose is not important; what is important; make the connection; learn to go with the gut; trust and believe in yourself; be brave and do the right thing; the rest will follow; ..... peace
|
|
|
|
Post by purr on Feb 9, 2023 19:07:48 GMT
thankU for writing this topic; statistics posted: say 90% of religious people; don't read the Bible and have learned religion through Oral Tradition; in Exodus; it is clear who gd is and what he want; gd talked to all the people at the base of a mountain; he spoke in a could; thundering and lighting and blowing the shofar; as the cloud sat on top of a mountain: then there is Enoch; which is part of the Ethiopian-jewish bible: for many Jews and Christians alike; they find Enoch to unbelievable; there are to many archeological finds to list that support the Bible; for me; its hard to deny there is not; some power greater than ourselves and that power; had made contact with our human ancestors and was documented; you can come to the conclusion; aliens are the higher power; for what they have shown modern-man; there is no doubt; they are far beyond human knowledge; I believe in One gd above all; this is stated throughout many religious scriptures; and therefore; I believe; gd created Aliens; and Aliens purpose; is to care for the Earth; Hermes books tell of gd; who he is and the creation and operation of the earth; Hermes books tell; the human purpose and creation within the circle of life and light; I have no doubt; there are many people that have been effected by extraterrestrial and mystic events and because of these events; these people; have a deep need to seek that higher power; some through the mystics; some through religion; which ever path you choose is not important; what is important; make the connection; learn to go with the gut; trust and believe in yourself; be brave and do the right thing; the rest will follow; ..... peace Thanks much for an inspiring reply. purr |
|
|
|
Post by cotes777 on Jul 6, 2023 9:58:34 GMT
Hi purr, everyone.
The Bible is primarily a source for humans to better understand God. To seek, to find, to follow. The historical context is not that of a world history in the eyes of humans, but rather an historical account of God's hand in the physical universe and how the spiritual interconnects with the physical. A good example of this can be found in the book of Genesis, where the Bible is accounting the many tribes of the descendants [sons] of Noah. The Hittites are but one of many references, and if you blink, you may miss them even being referred to...yet the Hittites were a massive civilization which played a key role in geopolitical events at the time they existed. The Bible barley mentions them, why? Because the Bible is not exactly a history book in accordance to humans.
How much more for a topic like beings living on another planet?
|
|
|
|
Post by purr on Jul 6, 2023 17:41:11 GMT
Hi purr, everyone. The Bible is primarily a source for humans to better understand God. To seek, to find, to follow. The historical context is not that of a world history in the eyes of humans, but rather an historical account of God's hand in the physical universe and how the spiritual interconnects with the physical. A good example of this can be found in the book of Genesis, where the Bible is accounting the many tribes of the descendants [sons] of Noah. The Hittites are but one of many references, and if you blink, you may miss them even being referred to...yet the Hittites were a massive civilization which played a key role in geopolitical events at the time they existed. The Bible barley mentions them, why? Because the Bible is not exactly a history book in accordance to humans. How much more for a topic like beings living on another planet? Would you say then that the practice of Faith in God, and of reading the Bible (or other holy book appropriate to one's belief system) must be seen as separate from reading/studying/researching UFOlogy? As if you switch your mind from UFO researching-mode to Christian Faith-mode? Or could there be just one reality wherein all living things and matter in the Cosmos share and interact in the one reality. Then I could wonder what God thinks about folks not from Earth. And go searching for UFOs in the Bible (if we see them, maybe the Hebrews in 1800BCE-70CE did too and recorded this in their holiest of writings, the Torah). purr |
|
|
|
Post by cotes777 on Jul 7, 2023 2:41:50 GMT
Hi purr - You have interesting thoughts/questions.  "Would you say then that the practice of Faith in God, and of reading the Bible (or other holy book appropriate to one's belief system) must be seen as separate from reading/studying/researching UFOlogy?" You first question I would say, no. The Bible [at least] teaches to "test the spirits" so-to-speak. So anything that doesn't go in line with the Bible is in error. Having said this, many times I have found the error is within the eye of the beholder. In other words, there are many hidden treasures found within the pages of the Bible that have often been over-looked. Much like the Hittites that I mentioned before. I believe this is very true about the first few paragraphs of Genesis, as many seem to differ. "As if you switch your mind from UFO researching-mode to Christian Faith-mode?" Heh, my faith doesn't work that way, but, you raise an interesting point. In order to view a subject like ufos, and other more controversial topics, I do find myself attempting to put my mindset "in their point of view". I then apply this to what I know is true, and this is how I discern a given subject matter. "Or could there be just one reality wherein all living things and matter in the Cosmos share and interact in the one reality." Here's the wild thing about our universe; outside of it we see black, darkness, abyss, nothingness. It looks like our entire universe might be inside a black hole! Jesus made references of people being cast into an "outer darkness". There is one thing that is for sure and that is all things are interconnected. Maybe aliens are upset with us for Eve and Adam eating from the tree of knowledge and bringing it all down... now they fly above us with their advanced tech and snoot their tiny noses, refusing to talk...  |
|
drwu
Full Member
Posts: 209
|
Post by drwu on Aug 13, 2023 17:13:58 GMT
I don't see why not , but being agnostic its a moot point to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by HAL on Aug 17, 2023 11:07:51 GMT
cotes777,
..Here's the wild thing about our universe; outside of it we see black, darkness, abyss, nothingness. It looks like our entire universe might be inside a black hole! Jesus made references of people being cast into an "outer darkness".
We don't see anything 'outside' the Universe. In fact we have no idea if the Universe has an outside or not.
|
|
drwu
Full Member
Posts: 209
|
Post by drwu on Aug 17, 2023 18:45:16 GMT
cotes777, ..Here's the wild thing about our universe; outside of it we see black, darkness, abyss, nothingness. It looks like our entire universe might be inside a black hole! Jesus made references of people being cast into an "outer darkness". We don't see anything 'outside' the Universe. In fact we have no idea if the Universe has an outside or not. Can we even see that far....to see an edge where blackness begins and nothingness...? I was under the impression that we can see some distant galaxies but not any boundary to know what's beyond. It could be an end or just more galaxies. "The observable Universe is bounded by a 'cosmic horizon', much like the horizon at sea. Just as we know there's more ocean over the horizon, we know there are more galaxies (possibly an infinite number) beyond the cosmic horizon. Their light simply hasn't had time to reach us yet." www.sciencefocus.com/space/the-universe-edge |
|
)
