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Post by purr on Jan 10, 2021 9:15:01 GMT
At 2:24 p.m., Trump tweeted that Pence "didn't have the courage to do what should have been done". Afterwards, Trump followers on far-right social media called for the vice president to be hunted down, and the mob began chanting, "Where is Pence?" Outside, the mob chanted, "Hang Mike Pence!," which some crowds continued to chant as they stormed the Capitol; at least three rioters were overheard by a reporter stating they wanted to find Pence and execute the vice president as a "traitor" by hanging him from a tree outside the building. All buildings in the complex were subsequently locked down, with no entry or exit from the buildings allowed. Capitol staff were asked to move into offices and lock their doors and windows; those outside were advised to "seek cover".
File:US Congress Breached by Protesters (Source)
People inside the Capitol being evacuated. Staff and reporters inside the building were taken by secure elevators to the basement, and then to an underground bunker constructed following the 2001 attempted attack on the Capitol. Evacuees were redirected while en route after the bunker was also infiltrated by the mob.
At 2:30 p.m., the Senate chamber was evacuated. After evacuation, the mob briefly took control of the chamber, with some armed and armored men carrying flex-cuffs and some posing with raised fists on the Senate dais that Pence had left minutes earlier. A source close to the vice president subsequently told CNN that Trump and his top aides did little to check on Pence's safety during the crisis and appeared unconcerned at the possibility that "an angry mob that he commanded to march on the Capitol might injure the vice president or his family." Pence's wife Karen Pence, daughter Charlotte Pence Bond, and brother Greg Pence (a member of the House; R-IN) were in the Capitol at the time it was attacked.
Apologies if I seemed slow to respond and by default added to the 'deafening silence' following the by all appearances bizarre attempt by sitting US president Trump to overthrow the American government. But I was not disconnected: in the midst of a tightening Dutch COVID-19 lock down my fam and I are working, surviving AND LOSING SLEEP over the unfolding insanity we cannot stop watching on CNN. Your fateful Januari 6, especially the joint session finishing the job of confirming Joe Biden was elected POTUS we viewed through the night. We were beyond shocked, we were flabbergasted and somehow completely taken by surprise by the fateful series of events taking place in our beloved America on January 6.
Me I'm not a Trump supporter perse, but at this site I've gone on record dozens of times saying I approve of several of President Trump's policies, and share parts of his worldview. I particularly have come to appreciate this president's tough love stance on my nation paying its way on Defense, stimulating us to providing our military with long overdue funding.
That said, sympathies notwithstanding, having watched every bit of CNN footage on the assault on the Capitol and lawmakers at work there (to be sure I checked among others ALJAZEERA to see if there was any significant discrepancy in the stories reported) I must conclude Donald Trump, from convictions for which he has no known legal basis, actually delivered a speech sending a huge crowd of supporters to march at the Capitol with the objective to prevent Biden being declared the winner of the 2020 elections. By his words he risked these marchers, protesters turning into a mob, and this they did, resulting in the shameful spectacle now shown to the whole world. An act of sacrilege committed in the heart of American Democracy, the Capitol Building ransacked and looted (Nancy Pelosi's lectern briefly on offer at eBay!), senators and members of congress sheltering under tables and in safe rooms, and four protesters and just now 1 police officer dead, the damage to US reputation immeasurable. Erdogan is giving America advice on how to properly conduct themselves as a Democracy. Putin and Xi probably just fell of their chair.
Obviously Trump screwed the pooch. So obvious and beyond the powers of spin that we hear deafening silence from many of his loyal followers. I am not the only one he has disappointed. The lack of judgement demonstrated through his actions, specifically the Jan 6 speech, is indeed of such magnitude that his opponents (joined by a few finally exasperated Republicans) have cause to consider a second impeachement or invoking (this is as yet within VP Pence's power) the 25th amendment. This MAGA guy doesn't know how to be president, probably he didn't want it and/or does not care.
But things got worse. That's what this post is about. I surmise that the president, as a last resort to cling to his position, pressured Mike Pence to put a spanner in the wheel during the January 6 joint session, refusing to acknowledge Biden as elected winner. And ominously added was that if Mike didn't come through for us Donald Trump wouldn't like him as much. If you missed it: from the mouth of this president... that's a threat. Pence at that moment found within himself the courage to resist being bullied into breaking the law and chose instead to keep faith with the American People and the law of the land. Case of "Et tu Brute" or turning Judas Iscariot, at least from the perspective of Trump, a man who doesn't take kindly to betrayal.
As quoted at top of post, at 2:24 pm Trump tweeted out that Mike Pence "didn't have the courage to do what should have been done". Among the marchers outrage prevailed over this 'betrayal' and the VP was now added to their target list, chanting 'Hang Mike Pence', a reporter overhearing three rioters stated intent to "execute" him as a "traitor". What really worries me here is the lack of concern shown by president Trump regarding the fate of his Vice President, whose life, along with his family present at the Capitol, came increasingly under threat as the hours went by and the Capitol Police needed help against a massive assault. Was Trump so deeply immersed in his own narrative of a stolen election that he was actually prepared to have Pence and family come to harm?
If so this would truly be the reasoning and action of a Madman or a Malevolent one, neither ought ever to be entrusted with being President of the United States.
purr
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Post by HAL on Jan 10, 2021 14:37:46 GMT
Hi Purr, How does it feel when the light suddenly comes on ?  |
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Post by gus on Jan 10, 2021 21:04:27 GMT
I said way before the election that these right wing Republicans want a dictator and a civil war.
Even the Arnold Schwarzenegger agrees. I want to hear from the Trump voters from America on this forum to explain them selves.
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Post by HAL on Jan 10, 2021 22:39:17 GMT
Gus,
They already have.
Just read through a few of the more political threads.
It's the main reason why some members were getting a bit fed up with the the way the site was drifting a long way from it's purpose.
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Post by ZETAR on Jan 11, 2021 3:30:04 GMT
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Post by gus on Jan 11, 2021 9:36:33 GMT
ZETAR and other right wing voters in the USA here on this forum, I have just listen to an Australian military analyst that deeply concerns me and should concern you.
If this violence continues you're currently in a pre insurgency where democracy is no longer being used to find compromise to govern America.
American's here on this forum will have to seriously consider that you have many Timothy McVeigh's preparing for extreme acts of violence in the near future.
Right wing voters might be closer to a new Timothy McVeigh than you realise, because of 6 degrees of separation.
Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people and injured more than 680, I hope YOU right wing voters can calm this pre insurgency down or many people will die.
The new Timothy McVeigh's will only listen to YOU!
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Post by ZETAR on Jan 11, 2021 18:33:38 GMT
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Post by purr on Jan 24, 2021 19:42:27 GMT
Hi Purr, How does it feel when the light suddenly comes on ? GOOD EVENING HAL I'm sure you realize it wasn't all that sudden. Myself and countless others for the past four years tried to separate Trump the maverick politician from Trump the contrary personality. At the storming of the Capitol that mental construct didn't work so well anymore. He took his beliefs about a stolen election too far into the real world, beyond the shameful thrashing and vandalizing the sacred American temple of democracy, to risking the safety and very lives of the members of senate and congress, his following turning from protesters to rioters to dangerous mob actually targeting 'treasonous' Republican senators and VP Pence. Elected representatives could have been killed, democratic transition delayed in direct answer to Trump's call to be strong and take your country back.
The two Police and four protest participants who did die were collateral damage alongside the president's aims.
I don't actually know if any 'steal' or voter fraud went on, maybe it did, maybe it didn't. The point is, once you're all grown up and have had the opportunity to learn how the world works you know that IF YOU CAN'T PROVE IT IN COURT IT ISN'T SO. What Trump did was to my mind highly irrational, ruthless and possibly rises to 'high crimes'. Guy ruined his legacy methinks... purr
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Post by purr on Feb 13, 2021 12:14:46 GMT
The 2ND Trump Impeachment Trial as it is being aired now by CNN has put me in a position where I need to keep calling our elderly family members, imploring them to watch this Court Drama in recording, during the day only. Because the temptation, felt as strongly by me, is for vulnerable folks medically self-isolating and/or staying indoors during the Dutch COVID-19 lock-down (21 - 4:30 hours curfew enforced with close to 100 euro fines) to start watching the 2nd Impeachment plus endless CNN commentaries and discussion, be totally enthralled and watch through the night (coinciding with CNN afternoon shows hosted by the likes of Cris Cuomo and Wolf Blitzer) and then enter the day utterly exhausted and disoriented. With rinse and repeat just ahead. Goes without saying that I at a sprightly 60 didn't take my own good advice and have been glued to the screen, seen most of T2TIT live, pertinent parts twice or more. Sleep, who needs it?  Let's go again. President Trump's treatment and attitude toward his VP while the Capitol is overrun is still pivotal to the senatorial vote about to be cast. It speaks to me of character: how easy is it for Donald Trump to place a close colleague and presumably ally, even friend in harm's way? And the biggest question, is Trump guilty of inciting a crowd turned dangerous mob to storm the Capitol Building resulting in ransacking it and the death of 6 people? Impeachment Managers and Trump Defense Lawyers imo did a superb job. I feel educated, and I'm sure the whole world is. I started out ensured of Trump's role in inciting the Capitol mob. But now after hearing out the defense I realize that the former president's speech narrowly falls outside of the legal definition for Inciting to Violence. The Impeachment Managers did make a compelling case, appealing to Common Sense, for Trump (mis?)informing, directing/inviting and inflaming his follower's emotions to a point where they turned fanatical in 'Stopping the Steal'. The IM team failed however in showing Trump either actually CAUSED or is GUILTY UNDER THE LAW pertaining to inciting the Capitol storming, destruction and threat to those present in the Joint Session. Simply because the riot began before Trump's speech, getting in full swing before he ended. Impeachment Managers, or investigators/historians coming after, still have to connect the dots PROVING the information streams from allegedly Trump to 'point of the spear' militia like the Proud Boys, folks who had been preparing for days, irrespective of the Jan 6 speech to breach the Capitol or cause any mayhem required. PROVING in detail, smartphone by smartphone, how Trump supporters entering and moving inside the Capitol building took their cue from words of incitement uttered by their president. I did not see such proof, thus there is a real likelyhood Donald Trump will be acquitted, and not prohibited from holding future office. So much for the law. But there's a lot of real world outside of legality. I believe at the core of true understanding are two Donald J. Trump tweets. "Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!" at 2:38 PM - 6 Jan 2021 and then:
"I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order - respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!" at 3:13 PM - 6 Jan 2021 So what's in the man's heart. You be the judge, the Senate will issue the verdict. From the timeline presented by the Defense Lawyers I derive that rioting, entry into the Capitol and major destruction and violence already had been ongoing for hours, and Trump had been made amply aware of this, including Mike Pence having been evacuated and being in danger, not to mention HE WAS WATCHING WITH ME, ALL OF US ON LIVE TV. Violence was very much happening, threatening cops, senators, the VP, workers and family present, and the peaceful transition was stopped by violent incursion. For Trump to tweet "stay peaceful" and "remain peaceful" indicates he was OK with the level of force right then used by his supporters, in effect calling their actions peaceful enough. He only emphasized to spare the police (unclear why, too late anyhow, one deadly injury was already sustained), and throws all others, Senators, MoC, especially those deemed traitorous or 'Steal'-implicated to the wolves.
My judgement (nobody listens to me, no problem) is that mr. Trump did manipulate his supporters to storm the Capitol, and he did so in a very SMART manner and quite RUTHLESSLY. I strongly suspect mr. Pence agrees with me on this. I also suspect former president Trump is going to get away with it. He'll be back.... purr
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Post by SysConfig on Feb 14, 2021 3:27:05 GMT
Hi Trump was Acquitted...capital A intentional..and now the light of day as someone mentioned here will really blare. Purr..I'm sorry that CNN is your only source of news.I must be like the VOA or sumtin over there. They too are going thru a grief period..right now.....as for pence, small p intentional,...he is going down as a traitor..Trump didn't pick him..the GOP did as a condition of support.. as for biden, small b intentional, he has curious problems of his own and they are not financial.. as for the netherlands, small n intentional, because if the Chinese get their hands on your super scaled small chip technology, of which only 5 exist in the world, and china is NOT one of them, it's game over for you..You will be known as the etherlands..You saw how hillary and clinton did, and you can expect the same from bidet, t intentional.. and a happy valentines day to crystal.. until then thats all the politicking i'll be doing on here ..
will be happy to respond to left wing gooberz then in 2022 and 2024...
ZETAR ....glad you noticed the prolific FBI and ONI presence in all the groups...they should have come to us first..we have ample experience with that here...I'm just surprised our seasoned elders seem to have forgotten about ((them))
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Post by ZETAR on Feb 14, 2021 23:13:01 GMT
 "ZETAR ....glad you noticed the prolific FBI and ONI presence in all the groups...they should have come to us first..we have ample experience with that here...I'm just surprised our seasoned elders seem to have forgotten about ((them))"
 SHALOM...Z
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