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Post by moksha on Aug 1, 2020 23:48:44 GMT
HOPI INDIAN
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Post by WingsofCrystal on Aug 2, 2020 0:57:40 GMT
Hi Moksha and Maxx,
This book is wonderful!
Book of the Hopi – June 30, 1977
by Frank Waters (Author)
paperback $14.19
"In this strange and wonderful book, thirty elders of the ancient Hopi tribe of Northern Arizona—a people who regard themselves as the first inhabitants of America—freely reveal the Hopi worldview for the first time in written form. The Hopi kept this view a secret for countless centuries, and anthropologists have long struggled to understand it. Now they record their myths and legends, and the meaning of their religious rituals and ceremonies as a gift to future generations."
www.amazon.com/Book-Hopi-Frank-Waters/dp/0140045279/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Book+of+the+Hopi&qid=1596329704&s=books&sr=1-1
Crystal
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Post by moksha on Aug 2, 2020 12:30:45 GMT
Hi Moksha and Maxx,
This book is wonderful!
Book of the Hopi – June 30, 1977
by Frank Waters (Author)
paperback $14.19
"In this strange and wonderful book, thirty elders of the ancient Hopi tribe of Northern Arizona—a people who regard themselves as the first inhabitants of America—freely reveal the Hopi worldview for the first time in written form. The Hopi kept this view a secret for countless centuries, and anthropologists have long struggled to understand it. Now they record their myths and legends, and the meaning of their religious rituals and ceremonies as a gift to future generations."
www.amazon.com/Book-Hopi-Frank-Waters/dp/0140045279/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Book+of+the+Hopi&qid=1596329704&s=books&sr=1-1
Crystal Hi Crystal, Hope you and all the others are well, I have a copy of that book, very interesting, I have been researching ancient symbols and root words from planet Earth, kinda a hobby of mine.
Its getting very windy here right now, hope the power stays on, I hate the generator thing. Here is a interesting link, ENJOY<>PLEASE!
<.> <.> ) -
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Post by WingsofCrystal on Aug 3, 2020 1:11:40 GMT
Hi Moksha and Maxx,
This book is wonderful!
Book of the Hopi – June 30, 1977
by Frank Waters (Author)
paperback $14.19
"In this strange and wonderful book, thirty elders of the ancient Hopi tribe of Northern Arizona—a people who regard themselves as the first inhabitants of America—freely reveal the Hopi worldview for the first time in written form. The Hopi kept this view a secret for countless centuries, and anthropologists have long struggled to understand it. Now they record their myths and legends, and the meaning of their religious rituals and ceremonies as a gift to future generations."
www.amazon.com/Book-Hopi-Frank-Waters/dp/0140045279/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Book+of+the+Hopi&qid=1596329704&s=books&sr=1-1
Crystal Hi Crystal, Hope you and all the others are well, I have a copy of that book, very interesting, I have been researching ancient symbols and root words from planet Earth, kinda a hobby of mine.
Its getting very windy here right now, hope the power stays on, I hate the generator thing. Here is a interesting link, ENJOY<>PLEASE!
<.> <.> ) -
Hi Moksha, Thank you for the link. Stay well. Crystal
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Post by mryelm on Sept 1, 2020 18:11:15 GMT
Well I have for the last decade agreed with Zecharia Sitchin and others who championed for planet X, AKA Nibru, AKA planet nine et al. What raises my spirits and hopes of discovery (that we are not alone) is how science and metaphysics (as in religious beliefs) are in harmony this time. There are quite a few scientists who support the planet nine concept. Notable among them is David Gerdes, an American astrophysicist and professor of astronomy at the University of Michigan. There are others but for brevity his is the only hyperlink I posted. www-personal.umich.edu/~gerdes
I haven't read Sitchin's books so I can't comment on his hypothesis of the Sumerian civilization being assisted by aliens but its plausible. Actually as I related in a post here a month or two ago I feel planet nine is the best candidate for a home world of visiting aliens. By that I mean the UFO's, and aliens caught on film and video. I have reason to believe ET's from planet nine may be only hundreds to thousands of years advanced instead of millions to billions of years more advanced than we humans. So its great we have good scientific data as well as other evidence to support the existence of other beings similar to us. I am sure in the future science and religious beliefs will merge in a seamless union. In that future we may be able to touch God due to the separation of spirit and an atom based universe, but at least we will know for sure God exists.
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Post by HAL on Sept 1, 2020 20:29:25 GMT
Re: Sitchin.
.. humanity was the creation of a group of aliens who came to Earth, some time between 450,000 BCE and 13,000 BCE...
Really ? Is that the best he can do ?
HAL
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drwu
Full Member
Posts: 209
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Post by drwu on Sept 2, 2020 0:58:42 GMT
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_SitchinTo get a good picture one needs to read up on Sitchin. He is not a trained arcaehologist, anthropoligist, scientist, nor a trained linguist...he taught himself Sumerian. He does have a degree in Economics which of course has nothing to do with his books. I think the Wiki piece sums it up under the section Criticisms.
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Post by mryelm on Sept 2, 2020 11:42:49 GMT
Hi drwu. I don't agree with those who criticize someone just because they have a an advanced or for that matter a four year degree in a field not related to what they are commenting on. Any degree is better than none and the more advanced the degree the better as far as I am concerned. Now I am making that comment on the premise I don't know the person but have only read a book or internet article they authored. The reasoning is if if someone earns, say a a PhD from a good or accredited university, that tells me that they have both the gray matter and the grit to win it. Of course having a degree is no guarantee that the individual possesses the positive characteristics I mentioned. I say that because degrees can be had by many manner of mostly nefarious ways, they can be bought, or be bestowed, obtained by cheating or other methods. (don't ask me how I know that, lol). Still I can be fairly certain that earning a degree lends some evidence of the persons 'abilities' and character when compared to an chap with unknown qualities. I will say I put little value on most schooling when it comes to gauging how much 'common sense' or similar qualities a person may have. Who was it who said "All I Really Need To Know I Learned in Kindergarten"? That quote may be a little, as wiki says, 'saccharine' but I think the author* meant one learns most of the things needed by a very early age. That quote as well as my idea about schooling is probably truly archaic as our civilization plunges blindly and I think recklessly into a total reliance on technology. Time will tell I suppose. ~ * ...... Robert Fulghum www.robertleefulghum.com
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drwu
Full Member
Posts: 209
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Post by drwu on Sept 2, 2020 14:47:51 GMT
mryelm, Criticism ,which of course is related to critical thinking, is how we determine value in various positions. One can be wildly critical and not base it on facts and then it just becomes negativity. But....in the case of Sitchin (and Von Daniken and others) there is much well placed criticism that exposes the many flaws in their reasoning and rational thinking. This is explained well in that Wiki piece but a simple search online will show many other experts who will explain the problems with their ideas.
I have read both Sitchin and Von Daniken some years ago and indeed have multiple books on my shelf by them. While fun to read they don't provide any actual evidentiary support of their claims. I know of nothing over the last 50 years that has been shown to support their alien claims. Until that time occurs they are only fun and entertaining ideas.
PS...imho people who place little credence on 'schooling' and 'empirical science'....will go through the world believing based only on faith...which mankind calls religion.
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Post by HAL on Sept 2, 2020 20:53:09 GMT
Mryelm,
My point about the time span quoted is that it is worthless. He may just as well said that these Aliens arrived 'somewhere between the beginning of time and 35,000 BCE.
How has he derived these dates ?
If you consider that our recorded histories only go back around 6,000 years, and our knowledge of pre-modern man (based on things we have dug out of the ground) not all that much further, then to claim such a huge timescale requires the production of evidence. And I don't see how he would do this.
As for a reliance on 'technology. Yes, indeed Man will be relying more on it's inventions as we progress. Take away everything technological and we wont last a year.
Just observe how quickly some modern cities collapse at the slightest sign of social unrest.
HAL.
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Post by mryelm on Sept 2, 2020 23:03:13 GMT
Hi drwu! I suppose so, but then we must somehow discover if the criticism is a verbal tool for harm ie valid or if it is someone attempting to expose liars and all manner of evils.
I am sometimes surprised when normally intelligent people fall completely for 'showmen' like Daniken and TV programs like ancient astronauts. Such material are good entertainment and probably had some elements of truth sprinkled throughout the (ok I will call Daniken's idea a hypothesis), narrative etc. But in my opinion Daniken strains mightily attempting to connect the dots to create a viable hypothesis which stretches the credibility line until it breaks. (yes that is awful writing, but I'm tired!)....Personally I think Daniken believes he is right, and I am sure he is not intentionally deceptive. He is a very successful man, he won the Nobel prize of some kind and has written many books, so I do respect him for his achievements AND his tenacity .
True! I was a young teen when I read Von Daniken first book, ancient astronauts. Over the years I became a bit more educated and was exposed to what I feel was far better ideas and hypothesis concerning ET's and related subjects such as metaphysics. So, I lost interest in his version of the Ancient Astronaut claims.
I feel a religious or spiritual life is equal to or superior to a life dedicated to science, depending on the type of belief or religion practiced. Btw, why do you think science is a better judge of truth than spiritual ie metaphysical discovery of truth via a priori truth ? Btw there are no there are no axioms in any branch of Science. I see science is sort of a well meaning con man always changing his story! One of my favorite sayings is 'the scientific truth today will be a quaint myth in the future'. Don't get me wrong I love science and it works in some cases, also it's practical as I alluded earlier. But compared to truth based on scientific and philosophical and metaphysical axioms science is a distant 2nd. As I mentioned modern science is practical and its a good tool but truth eludes it. Have a blessed day!
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Post by plutronus on Sept 3, 2020 14:27:39 GMT
Hi drwu! I suppose so, but then we must somehow discover if the criticism is a verbal tool for harm ie valid or if it is someone attempting to expose liars and all manner of evils. I am sometimes surprised when normally intelligent people fall completely for 'showmen' like Daniken and TV programs like ancient astronauts. Such material are good entertainment and probably had some elements of truth sprinkled throughout the (ok I will call Daniken's idea a hypothesis), narrative etc. But in my opinion Daniken strains mightily attempting to connect the dots to create a viable hypothesis which stretches the credibility line until it breaks. (yes that is awful writing, but I'm tired!)....Personally I think Daniken believes he is right, and I am sure he is not intentionally deceptive. He is a very successful man, he won the Nobel prize of some kind and has written many books, so I do respect him for his achievements AND his tenacity . True! I was a young teen when I read Von Daniken first book, ancient astronauts. Over the years I became a bit more educated and was exposed to what I feel was far better ideas and hypothesis concerning ET's and related subjects such as metaphysics. So, I lost interest in his version of the Ancient Astronaut claims. I feel a religious or spiritual life is equal to or superior to a life dedicated to science, depending on the type of belief or religion practiced. Btw, why do you think science is a better judge of truth than spiritual ie metaphysical discovery of truth via a priori truth ? Btw there are no there are no axioms in any branch of Science. I see science is sort of a well meaning con man always changing his story! One of my favorite sayings is 'the scientific truth today will be a quaint myth in the future'. Don't get me wrong I love science and it works in some cases, also it's practical as I alluded earlier. But compared to truth based on scientific and philosophical and metaphysical axioms science is a distant 2nd. As I mentioned modern science is practical and its a good tool but truth eludes it. Have a blessed day! The difference between religious achievements and scientific achievements, is one of which can't do anything except warm the soul, which in moments of great emotional and-or spiritual pain can be quite comforting while, and the other is the reason you can reliably read this sentence, through the efforts of thousands of scientists. How many religious scientist rely on OUR technology?
plutronus
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Post by mryelm on Sept 3, 2020 16:59:46 GMT
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Post by HAL on Sept 3, 2020 17:54:08 GMT
One big difference between religious belief and scientific belief is that science, when it discovers what was believed to be fact, is wrong can, and probably will, change it based on the new learning. Religious belief is set in stone. And one puts one's life in jeopardy if one attempts to bring logic into it.
Religion is a power game. Anyone who doubts the truth of that need only reflect on the fate of people who have disagreed with the people holding religious power. From the Catholic Church to ISIS.
HAL
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Post by mryelm on Sept 3, 2020 21:54:04 GMT
One big difference between religious belief and scientific belief is that science, when it discovers what was believed to be fact, is wrong can, and probably will, change it based on the new learning. Religious belief is set in stone. And one puts one's life in jeopardy if one attempts to bring logic into it. Religion is a power game. Anyone who doubts the truth of that need only reflect on the fate of people who have disagreed with the people holding religious power. From the Catholic Church to ISIS. HAL Very true Hal. An important premise of scientific methodology is Falsifiability. (see cut and paste). You mentioned that if someone decidede to criticizing religion is deadly. In the west Christianity is overwhelmingly accepting to sinners'. However there are exceptions. There are places where the threat of bodily harm coming to any one trying to debate without respect or practice something revolting like blood sacrifice satanism. Buck mountain which is about 12 miles from my home is such an truly scary abode. Even police wont go in the area to serve papers! The people aren't monsters their abhorrence to strangers and change are related to fear., Sorry about going off on a tangent! To get back in topic ......As commonly known the ability for the scientific community to alter, change or delete scientific 'fact' is called Falsifiability. I realize its a necessary evil but science is given its self a lot of wiggle room. Definition from the web; Falsifiability. is the assertion that for any hypothesis to have credence, it must be inherently disprovable before it can become accepted as a scientific hypothesis or theory.For example, someone might claim \"the earth is younger than many scientists state, and in fact was created to appear as though it was older through deceptive fossils etc.\" This is a claim that is unfalsifiable because it is a theory that can never be shown t… See more on explorable.com scripture. I hope I haven't left anything out, if I have I'll... ahhhhh'....ha'....Hey sis I wat my warm milk toddy! ; {>
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