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Post by flatearth on Oct 25, 2019 4:27:43 GMT
I originally paid little attention to the Bob Lazar story, especially after people like Stanton Friedman did some investigating and found that there were no records to support Lazar's claimed background. However, with the recently circulated gun camera videos of UFOs that have been acknowledged as being genuine by the US military, it caught my attention that the flight characteristics of the craft he described twenty years ago were evident in at least one of the videos. The odd characteristic is that these craft do not fly horizontally like a Frisbee, but rather they turn on end with the bottom facing the direction of flight. As a side note, Betty and Barney Hill of abduction fame also described this very same rotation when the craft they observed departed. Perhaps Lazar simply followed the Hill abduction story to get the idea.
In any case, here is a video that reviews the Lazar story in quite a bit of detail. It's done by a person who claims to be a body language expert, but honestly the commentary he provides is a bit zany and distracting. If you can get past that, the points he makes are valid in my opinion. This video, along with the recently released UFO videos, has made me reconsider the Bob Lazar story. I think it's true.
The video is about an hour long, but for me it was worth the time to see the entire story and to consider the commentary. I'm interested in the opinions of the Casebook Gang, so please comment!
Flat
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Post by purr on Oct 25, 2019 9:38:08 GMT
I originally paid little attention to the Bob Lazar story, especially after people like Stanton Friedman did some investigating and found that there were no records to support Lazar's claimed background. However, with the recently circulated gun camera videos of UFOs that have been acknowledged as being genuine by the US military, it caught my attention that the flight characteristics of the craft he described twenty years ago were evident in at least one of the videos. The odd characteristic is that these craft do not fly horizontally like a Frisbee, but rather they turn on end with the bottom facing the direction of flight. As a side note, Betty and Barney Hill of abduction fame also described this very same rotation when the craft they observed departed. Perhaps Lazar simply followed the Hill abduction story to get the idea. In any case, here is a video that reviews the Lazar story in quite a bit of detail. It's done by a person who claims to be a body language expert, but honestly the commentary he provides is a bit zany and distracting. If you can get past that, the points he makes are valid in my opinion. This video, along with the recently released UFO videos, has made me reconsider the Bob Lazar story. I think it's true. The video is about an hour long, but for me it was worth the time to see the entire story and to consider the commentary. I'm interested in the opinions of the Casebook Gang, so please comment! Flat Thanks Flatearth, reading that it brought back to me how I got started on the UFO mystery during the late 1960s, as I began reading the truly excellent/insightful books by Belgian researchers bringing together state of the art UFOlogy both from Europe and the US, my family got blindsided by a personal story from my grandmother who claimed to have seen a flying saucer over Amsterdam in the 1950s (memory fails me here as to precision, this coming off the top of my head). She made at least two pertinent points regarding her observation. One: the saucer was flying or hovering in a markedly tilted position. This almost slipped my mind until this Lazar reference you made. Two: she told us "they" intentionally showed themselves to her. To which I responded in all my childish bookwisdom in the most dismissive fashion: that's impossible, why would extraterrestrials have any interest in revealing themselves to any human individual, let alone my granny. I believed this was about Science discovering intelligent spacefaring ET, not something in any way 'personal'.
Today I'm 59 and I've come to believe UFOs are intensely 'personal'. Meeting them is a path walked, however weird and unbelievable, by humans and aliens together, a personal experience of the inquisitive mind, our eternal spirits and fate as its unfolds in our lives.
purr
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Post by ZETAR on Oct 25, 2019 13:53:19 GMT
Today I'm 59 any I've come to believe UFOs are intensely 'personal'. Meeting them is a path walked, however weird and unbelievable, by humans and aliens together, a personal experience of the inquisitive mind, our eternal spirits and fate as its unfolds in our lives.
SHALOM...Z
EDIT TO ADD:
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Post by HAL on Oct 25, 2019 20:54:15 GMT
Happy birthday Purr.
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Post by HAL on Oct 25, 2019 20:57:15 GMT
Re: Lazar.
It always seems odd to me that when the military say things like ' probably weather balloons, we know nothing about them', Everyone jumps up and down and says 'cover up'.
Yet the moment they say ' we agree, ufos' everyone accepts it.
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Post by nyx on Oct 25, 2019 21:45:47 GMT
Purr and Zetar same birthday, WOW!
I hope you’ll have many more.
I always thought Bob Lazar sounded sincere, and he stayed away from the public’s eye for years not looking for financial reward.
Just recently he has done interviews, and probably received money for them.
Purr you are right, if one has a UFO event, it is very personal and at the same one feels you have been put into a special group.
I have spent my life asking the question, “why me”
What did E.T. find interesting in me.
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Post by ZETAR on Oct 25, 2019 22:25:43 GMT
Purr and Zetar same birthday, WOW! I hope you’ll have many more. I always thought Bob Lazar sounded sincere, and he stayed away from the public’s eye for years not looking for financial reward. Just recently he has done interviews, and probably received money for them. Purr you are right, if one has a UFO event, it is very personal and at the same one feels you have been put into a special group. I have spent my life asking the question, “why me” What did E.T. find interesting in me. HMMM...GOTTA PUT THAT FIRE OUT BEFORE IT SPREADS...LOL...HAPPY BIRTHDAY PURR!
PURR ALSO SHARES THE DISTICTION OF BEING BORN ON THE SAME DAY AS PABLO PICASSO October 25, 1881 AND IT CERTAINLY SEEMS THOSE SCORPIO'S ARE A TALENTED LOT WHEN MARS IS AT IT'S BRIGHTEST...MY BIRTHDAY IS CLOSE AT HAND...NOT TODAY HOWEVER.SHALOM...Z
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Post by flatearth on Oct 26, 2019 4:25:05 GMT
Thanks Flatearth, reading that it brought back to me how I got started on the UFO mystery during the late 1960s, as I began reading the truly excellent/insightful books by Belgian researchers bringing together state of the art UFOlogy both from Europe and the US, my family got blindsided by a personal story from my grandmother who claimed to have seen a flying saucer over Amsterdam in the 1950s (memory fails me here as to precision, this coming off the top of my head). She made at least two pertinent points regarding her observation. One: the saucer was flying or hovering in a markedly tilted position. This almost slipped my mind until this Lazar reference you made. Two: she told us "they" intentionally showed themselves to her. To which I responded in all my childish bookwisdom in the most dismissive fashion: that's impossible, why would extraterrestrials have any interest in revealing themselves to any human individual, let alone my granny. I believed this was about Science disoovering intelligent spacefaring ET, not something in any way 'personal'.
Today I'm 59 any I've come to believe UFOs are intensely 'personal'. Meeting them is a path walked, however weird and unbelievable, by humans and aliens together, a personal experience of the inquisitive mind, our eternal spirits and fate as its unfolds in our lives.
purr
Happy 59th purr! That's an interesting story and perspective. If it is true that the experience is equally personal for an alien, then that would be a welcomed quality, wouldn't it? Flat
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Post by flatearth on Oct 26, 2019 4:27:19 GMT
Re: Lazar. It always seems odd to me that when the military say things like ' probably weather balloons, we know nothing about them', Everyone jumps up and down and says 'cover up'. Yet the moment they say ' we agree, ufos' everyone accepts it. HAL, I don't think it's odd at all. The military didn't always deny UFOs. That happened for a while during Project Grudge, but during the early days of Project Blue Book they tried to address sightings as best they could, saying that a certain percentage of them were unidentified but refrained from speculating about what they could be. Months after the 1952 Washington DC UFO wave, the CIA held a meeting with top scientists of the time and started the policy of denying the existence of UFOs. Those who know the history and the good reasons why they decided to officially dismiss UFO sightings naturally say “cover up”. There has simply been too many cases with too many witnesses to think that UFOs don't exist. Now that they are releasing a few tidbits of information and confirming that it is genuine, it's generally being accepted by those who follow the subject. Honestly, what I find truly amazing and baffling is that the majority of people just don't care. Flat
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drwu
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Post by drwu on Oct 26, 2019 16:20:54 GMT
I don't think there should be any connection between ufos seen by the military or civilian witnesses over the decades and Lazar's story. They are two separate issues imho. The new video with Lazar does not change my mind about Lazar. The 'body language' aspect is not hard science nor proof he's telling the truth. After all these years , if he is lying, then he has certainly been able to hide this fact.
The investigations ,done by many over the years including Stanton Friedman, have shown that Lazar has lied about many thing, or at the very least no one has been able to verify most if not all of his claims. That speaks volumes imho. The idea that the gubbermint has somehow erased his history is simply ludicrous. Even if they were able to do that to most of the paper trail there would be many people who would recall him at various schools, jobs, etc...yet none have come forward to do this nor has he presented any to us. Why not..?
I think it's abundantly clear something is very wrong with his story. The question is what? Is any of it true or is it all a lie? It's easy to go on and I have mentioned other factors on this already on the Lazar thread but until Mr Lazar presents something other than his tale, there simply is no good reason to believe him.
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Post by flatearth on Oct 27, 2019 23:17:19 GMT
I don't think there should be any connection between ufos seen by the military or civilian witnesses over the decades and Lazar's story. They are two separate issues imho. The new video with Lazar does not change my mind about Lazar. The 'body language' aspect is not hard science nor proof he's telling the truth. After all these years , if he is lying, then he has certainly been able to hide this fact. The investigations ,done by many over the years including Stanton Friedman, have shown that Lazar has lied about many thing, or at the very least no one has been able to verify most if not all of his claims. That speaks volumes imho. The idea that the gubbermint has somehow erased his history is simply ludicrous. Even if they were able to do that to most of the paper trail there would be many people who would recall him at various schools, jobs, etc...yet none have come forward to do this nor has he presented any to us. Why not..? I think it's abundantly clear something is very wrong with his story. The question is what? Is any of it true or is it all a lie? It's easy to go on and I have mentioned other factors on this already on the Lazar thread but until Mr Lazar presents something other than his tale, there simply is no good reason to believe him. I don't think there should be any connection between ufos seen by the military or civilian witnesses over the decades and Lazar's story. They are two separate issues imho. The new video with Lazar does not change my mind about Lazar. The 'body language' aspect is not hard science nor proof he's telling the truth. After all these years , if he is lying, then he has certainly been able to hide this fact. [drwu]Why wouldn't UFO evidence and reports be connected to the Lazar story? Lazar described craft that obviously relate to past and present sightings. I don't follow the logic that there is any disconnect here. While I do agree that the body language video proves nothing, some good points were made by the presenter. It's very tough to tell a fabricated story consistently over the course of 30 years. The investigations ,done by many over the years including Stanton Friedman, have shown that Lazar has lied about many thing, or at the very least no one has been able to verify most if not all of his claims. That speaks volumes imho. The idea that the gubbermint has somehow erased his history is simply ludicrous. Even if they were able to do that to most of the paper trail there would be many people who would recall him at various schools, jobs, etc...yet none have come forward to do this nor has he presented any to us. Why not..? [drwu]
It is possible that the government did its best to erase records of Lazar's past to discredit him, but there are reports that Lazar's name appeared in a 1982 Los Alamos phone book, and he was identified as physicist at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility in the Los Alamos newspaper in 1982. I believe the door is open on this point. I think it's abundantly clear something is very wrong with his story. The question is what? Is any of it true or is it all a lie? It's easy to go on and I have mentioned other factors on this already on the Lazar thread but until Mr Lazar presents something other than his tale, there simply is no good reason to believe him. [drwu]
Lazar has told the same story for, what, 30 years? In my view, if Lazar came up with something new at this point, that would indicate deception. The only new thing that happened was that his business in Michigan was raided by the FBI while (I believe) he was being interviewed. That doesn't happen to most of us ordinary, boring types. They were looking for something. Stable Moscovium perhaps? Obviously we are on opposite ends of this discussion, but I didn't expect to convince anyone to change their mind on Bob Lazar. I was looking to share how my view has evolved, and hopefully it would encourage others to also reconsider their position by taking a fresh look. Thanks for taking the time to comment, drwu! Flat
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Post by HAL on Oct 27, 2019 23:27:54 GMT
...Honestly, what I find truly amazing and baffling is that the majority of people just don't care...
What difference will it make to anything if the do care ? And what do you mean by 'care'.
The sea levels are going to rise. Most people care about it. But nothing is going to stop it. So why worry ?
prepare for the rising sea level, yes of course. But wringing hands will not change anything.
Same with the Lazar case. He is telling the truth or he is lying. Caring about it doesn't change anything.
So he has been telling the same story for 30 years. If it's true it will be the same story. It he keeps changing it then something is wrong.
HAL.
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Post by flatearth on Oct 28, 2019 3:50:28 GMT
...Honestly, what I find truly amazing and baffling is that the majority of people just don't care... What difference will it make to anything if the do care ? And what do you mean by 'care'. The sea levels are going to rise. Most people care about it. But nothing is going to stop it. So why worry ? prepare for the rising sea level, yes of course. But wringing hands will not change anything. Same with the Lazar case. He is telling the truth or he is lying. Caring about it doesn't change anything. So he has been telling the same story for 30 years. If it's true it will be the same story. It he keeps changing it then something is wrong. HAL. Hello HAL, By not caring I was referring to the people in my limited exposure of the world not caring or not being interested in the subject of UFOs, regardless of the breaking news. I find it a bit frustrating because of the people I know personally, I know only one person who shares that interest. I hope all is well with you in the UK! Flat
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drwu
Full Member
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Post by drwu on Oct 28, 2019 18:43:16 GMT
I don't think there should be any connection between ufos seen by the military or civilian witnesses over the decades and Lazar's story. They are two separate issues imho. The new video with Lazar does not change my mind about Lazar. The 'body language' aspect is not hard science nor proof he's telling the truth. After all these years , if he is lying, then he has certainly been able to hide this fact. The investigations ,done by many over the years including Stanton Friedman, have shown that Lazar has lied about many thing, or at the very least no one has been able to verify most if not all of his claims. That speaks volumes imho. The idea that the gubbermint has somehow erased his history is simply ludicrous. Even if they were able to do that to most of the paper trail there would be many people who would recall him at various schools, jobs, etc...yet none have come forward to do this nor has he presented any to us. Why not..? I think it's abundantly clear something is very wrong with his story. The question is what? Is any of it true or is it all a lie? It's easy to go on and I have mentioned other factors on this already on the Lazar thread but until Mr Lazar presents something other than his tale, there simply is no good reason to believe him. I don't think there should be any connection between ufos seen by the military or civilian witnesses over the decades and Lazar's story. They are two separate issues imho. The new video with Lazar does not change my mind about Lazar. The 'body language' aspect is not hard science nor proof he's telling the truth. After all these years , if he is lying, then he has certainly been able to hide this fact. [drwu]Why wouldn't UFO evidence and reports be connected to the Lazar story? Lazar described craft that obviously relate to past and present sightings. I don't follow the logic that there is any disconnect here. While I do agree that the body language video proves nothing, some good points were made by the presenter. It's very tough to tell a fabricated story consistently over the course of 30 years. The investigations ,done by many over the years including Stanton Friedman, have shown that Lazar has lied about many thing, or at the very least no one has been able to verify most if not all of his claims. That speaks volumes imho. The idea that the gubbermint has somehow erased his history is simply ludicrous. Even if they were able to do that to most of the paper trail there would be many people who would recall him at various schools, jobs, etc...yet none have come forward to do this nor has he presented any to us. Why not..? [drwu]
It is possible that the government did its best to erase records of Lazar's past to discredit him, but there are reports that Lazar's name appeared in a 1982 Los Alamos phone book, and he was identified as physicist at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility in the Los Alamos newspaper in 1982. I believe the door is open on this point. I think it's abundantly clear something is very wrong with his story. The question is what? Is any of it true or is it all a lie? It's easy to go on and I have mentioned other factors on this already on the Lazar thread but until Mr Lazar presents something other than his tale, there simply is no good reason to believe him. [drwu]
Lazar has told the same story for, what, 30 years? In my view, if Lazar came up with something new at this point, that would indicate deception. The only new thing that happened was that his business in Michigan was raided by the FBI while (I believe) he was being interviewed. That doesn't happen to most of us ordinary, boring types. They were looking for something. Stable Moscovium perhaps? Obviously we are on opposite ends of this discussion, but I didn't expect to convince anyone to change their mind on Bob Lazar. I was looking to share how my view has evolved, and hopefully it would encourage others to also reconsider their position by taking a fresh look. Thanks for taking the time to comment, drwu! Flat I don't think your rebuttal is as strong nor do they answer my original points ,so I won't take the time to comment on that ,but regarding proof by the phone books.....by all means post the pages from those books and lets see his name. Take your time.
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Post by flatearth on Oct 29, 2019 4:04:00 GMT
I don't think your rebuttal is as strong nor do they answer my original points ,so I won't take the time to comment on that ,but regarding proof by the phone books.....by all means post the pages from those books and lets see his name. Take your time. Actually I feel that I did adequately address each of your points, but really I wasn't looking for an in-depth debate anyway. I wanted to acknowledge your reply with the courtesy of an answer. Regarding the newspaper article and phone book information, that information appeared in this Daily Beast article: www.thedailybeast.com/why-did-the-fbi-raid-the-home-of-the-biggest-alien-truther While it's not proof, it does prove I'm not fabricating info. Flat
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